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View Full Version : FISHERMEN/Striped Bass Addendum VI, my Imput


1captainron
09-13-2019, 05:14 PM
To: Max Appelman

Mr. Appelman,

Capt. Ron Santee of the Party Boat Fishermen, Atlantic Highlands, NJ, here.

Myself and several other Captains were at the Meeting last night in Mantaloken to discuss the Draft Addendum VI. All of us are in agreement that there seems to be no consideration for the Party Boats and our business. It seemed most if not all from the private sector, fishing clubs and even some Charter boats were on board with a 35 inch fish.

After listening to many of the comments, one in particular that mentioned making Raritan & Sandy Hook Bay a Sanctuary or even a moratorium on Striped Bass, I couldn't think straight to address anyone!! So I decided it best to send you a letter and express my concerns.

Back in early 2000, can't recall the year, we had 3 fish, One at 28-34, one at 34+ and a slot fish at 24 to just under 28 inches. At that time the 34 and overs were all big egg carrying females. Everyday I would educate my customers on how it was the right thing to do to toss the breeders back. I actually had a Kodak Printable camera where I would take the customers picture, release the Big females and encourage them to keep the smaller, better eating fish. Believe it or not I only had ONE customer that entire season ask if it was OK to keep a 36 inch fish only because it was the first Bass he ever caught. Of course I said yes but the point is, I spent everyday trying to protect these fish while encouraging people to think about the future.

How do you think it makes me feel or how does it make me look now, if we are forced to kill 35 inch breeding females? Not to mention the fact that we rarely see these fish on the Head boats anymore. Most of the bigger bass are caught trolling. The mortality rate has to be unreal just from the stress alone.

I'm assuming there is no consideration for economic impact when it comes to the Party boat fleet. A 35 inch fish in the Spring with nothing else to target would decimate an already struggling industry. We certainly don't have the numbers compared to the private sector to change anything so we will basically be thrown into another Oh well situation. A situation I'm afraid we will not recover from.

I have had nothing but respect for the Fishery and have educated my customers the same my entire career. I am on the board of the Save the Summer Flounder Fishery, my vessel was involved in both sexing studies on Summer Flounder the past several years.

Another very important fact that was brought up at the meeting was the Migration of Striped bass through the EEZ.....There currently is Zero Data on this even though countless Captains have mentioned the acres of fish that migrate this area Nov-December. How can you make a decision that will affect the lives of Hard working people with out all the data? Once again we are told "It's the best Science" available.

So for my personal impute I'd like to see one 24-32 inch fish for the Party Boats. If we have to change the bonus program to do so, then so be it but we at least need something that will give our customers hope of going home with a meal for the effort and it just might keep us in business for another year.

Thank you,
Capt. Ron Santee/Fishermen

penn50w
09-13-2019, 08:51 PM
Here's a question for you - if you take the smaller fish, how do we get BIG SPAWNERS again? I assume they don't just grow to 50 lbs over night - curious

Bluefish
09-13-2019, 09:00 PM
we are talking about 1 fish per person and that will not wipe out the future. Rons suggestion makes perfect sense.

dakota560
09-13-2019, 09:45 PM
Here's a question for you - if you take the smaller fish, how do we get BIG SPAWNERS again? I assume they don't just grow to 50 lbs over night - curious

One of the primary attributes of any successful fishery is protecting the spawn and having a healthy population of new recruits every year. Harvest the smaller fish and enough of the population will get through to become breeders and perpetuate the fishery. Egg production on older age fish is almost 10 times greater than younger age classes so once the spawning base is established the fishery will thrive. Same issue with summer flounder. When age 1-2 fish made up 95% of the overall harvest the biomass increased almost ten fold. Older age classes which produced millions of eggs as opposed to hundreds of thousands fueled recruitment. When the regulations changed forcing to harvest of larger sexually mature breeders and commercial operators electively decided to harvest larger fish due to higher market values, the fishery has been on a decline for the last 15 years. Same concept Capt Ron is suggesting and he couldn't be more correct. In fisheries with high levels of egg production, harvest the smaller fish and let the older age spawners sustain the future of the fishery.

bulletbob
09-14-2019, 08:00 AM
One of the primary attributes of any successful fishery is protecting the spawn and having a healthy population of new recruits every year. Harvest the smaller fish and enough of the population will get through to become breeders and perpetuate the fishery. Egg production on older age fish is almost 10 times greater than younger age classes so once the spawning base is established the fishery will thrive. Same issue with summer flounder. When age 1-2 fish made up 95% of the overall harvest the biomass increased almost ten fold. Older age classes which produced millions of eggs as opposed to hundreds of thousands fueled recruitment. When the regulations changed forcing to harvest of larger sexually mature breeders and commercial operators electively decided to harvest larger fish due to higher market values, the fishery has been on a decline for the last 15 years. Same concept Capt Ron is suggesting and he couldn't be more correct. In fisheries with high levels of egg production, harvest the smaller fish and let the older age spawners sustain the future of the fishery.

Well stated..


Some people don't really get the concept of "selective harvest" and want to just shut down ANY harvest.

The big old egg bearing females need better protection than smaller fish, because there are fewer of them by far, and they are the most prolific spawners.

In the modern age slot limits are the way to go for pretty much all species under heavy pressure.. Sad that it came to this but here we are.

Fluke "management" is absurd.. The regulations force anglers to remove the large egg producers from the stock if they want a fish or two to eat.. Fluke must be managed so that the smaller, more abundant, less productive fish become a larger part of the recreational harvest, and the larger females become less of the harvest. bob

nanseaj
09-14-2019, 10:54 AM
Here's a question for you - if you take the smaller fish, how do we get BIG SPAWNERS again? I assume they don't just grow to 50 lbs over night - curious

Clueless! I feel for you Ron and the rest of the Party boat fleet. Slot limits do work! Just look at the Red drum fishery to the south. A slot limit was put in place and the fishery rebounded. There is no shortage of trophy fish over 50lbs and a vibrant fishery of all sizes. Lots of anglers target the trophys take a picture and have no problem letting them go. If the proposed regulations go into place they will follow the fluke fishery with ever increasing size limits and no tasty small fish for dinner.

GDubya07
09-15-2019, 07:58 AM
Thank you Capt. Ron for all of the thankless hard work and dedication

Tom keep bringing that data and using there own words against them

BTW , the smaller fish taste better and this would be great for both fluke and striped carp (bass)

Gdubya-:cool:

hammer4reel
09-15-2019, 08:31 AM
Ron , I didn’t get to make this meeting .
But what I had heard before it was they wanted to release all fish over 35”..
Which I think would be great to protect all those fish that are larger than that now .


Was that changed to only keeping fish over 35 “ ?.

The other states that imposed the new limits are protecting all the fish over 35”

1captainron
09-15-2019, 03:26 PM
Ron , I didn’t get to make this meeting .
But what I had heard before it was they wanted to release all fish over 35”..
Which I think would be great to protect all those fish that are larger than that now .


Was that changed to only keeping fish over 35 “ ?.

The other states that imposed the new limits are protecting all the fish over 35”

The First option is for Keeping 1 fish over 35 inches......:mad:

Home Depot George
09-15-2019, 07:22 PM
I hope everyone remembers that once we as fishermen give something up we will never get it back. Years ago I worked for Mike Yuro on the Sea Fox and Capt Danny on the Teal doing night bluefish trips. Stripers were an occasional catch and I don't remember seeing party boats doing striper trips like now. I moved to Florida 22 years ago and eventually worked my way up to a 29ft Whaler strictly bottom fishing we could keep 2 red snapper per person over 20in. and it never took more than an hour to limit the people who fished with me unless we were fishing deep for 20+ lb fish. more than 10 years ago they shut it down completely and last year we got 6 days and this year we got 5 days. The snapper have overrun the reefs so bad the commercial kingfishermen are hooking 2 snapper for every king. I don't know all the science involved but it seems like everytime we agree on a new limit,closure etc they are already working on the next round of regs.

Mike K
09-16-2019, 12:15 PM
Man you are right on Captain! How is it science, when the size limit always defaults to keeping the biggest fish? As for how many are caught beyond 3 miles? A lot more than people would admit in the southern part of the state, sadly.

nanseaj
09-16-2019, 10:12 PM
I hope everyone remembers that once we as fishermen give something up we will never get it back. Years ago I worked for Mike Yuro on the Sea Fox and Capt Danny on the Teal doing night bluefish trips. Stripers were an occasional catch and I don't remember seeing party boats doing striper trips like now. I moved to Florida 22 years ago and eventually worked my way up to a 29ft Whaler strictly bottom fishing we could keep 2 red snapper per person over 20in. and it never took more than an hour to limit the people who fished with me unless we were fishing deep for 20+ lb fish. more than 10 years ago they shut it down completely and last year we got 6 days and this year we got 5 days. The snapper have overrun the reefs so bad the commercial kingfishermen are hooking 2 snapper for every king. I don't know all the science involved but it seems like everytime we agree on a new limit,closure etc they are already working on the next round of regs. Maybe all of the bullshit by regulators is more about job security than anything else!

spearo
09-17-2019, 06:04 PM
Keeping 1 fish over 35" is gotta be the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.:mad::mad:

nsc_tpt
09-17-2019, 06:32 PM
I agree with Captain Ron, save the breeders for the better future....

FishingSinceIWasThree
09-21-2019, 10:00 AM
Many people, myself included, can only fish 2-4 times per year. They have jobs, kids, bills, houses, parents to take care of. They would like to go out and catch fish to bring home. That has always been a huge part of fishing. You go out and spend $200 to $400 for a fishing trip with your family, you want to take some fish home. When limits stop this from happening, folks don't enjoy fishing any longer....they begin to resent it....especially when there are other folks who are able to fish several times a week because they are better off financially.

Perhaps there should be a total restriction on how many fish you take for the whole year. If I fish 2 times a year, I am obviously not taking as many fish as those fishing three times a week. I might take 1 fish and they may take 50.

A keeper striper at 35 inches is very disrespectful to both the recreational fisherman and those who do this for a living. Perhaps we should limit their paychecks and pensions for being so disrespectful. After all, out country's debt crisis is far worse than the shape our fisheries are in. Food for thought.

bunkatabunka
09-21-2019, 06:58 PM
Perhaps there should be a total restriction on how many fish you take for the whole year. If I fish 2 times a year, I am obviously not taking as many fish as those fishing three times a week. I might take 1 fish and they may take 50.

and how's that gonna work?