Less people fishing

[Foul Hook]

Was talking to a long time party boat captain and the boats owners yesterday. Their consensus is that it seems there are less people fishing. As they look over numbers from previous months,years ect. they are seeing a downward trend. Just curious as to what the boards thoughts were on the subject.

[RC.]

Definitely fewer people fishing on party boats. There are way less party boats and the remaining ones don't seem to carry as many people. Probably many reasons....not as many fish around, more restrictions, people have more options for entertainment.

That said, there seem to be many more people fishing in private boats. In addition, in year's past the party boats did not have to compete with all of the open charter boats. There are probably a few dozen on this board alone. Twenty years ago a lot of those customers would be on party boats. There are days when there are so many boats on the ocean it's crazy. So I'm not sure how much of a decline there is in fisherman, but I would definitely agree that party boat participation is way down.

RC

[porgylber]

I definitely agree that party boat participation is down. On my last day out, a beautiful day, there were 8 people fishing on the boat. Why? Because unless you are dedicated, it’s tough to make an economic argument for hopping on board. After paying my fare, with gas and tolls, and a sandwich and soda, and ice, and a trip to the tackle store for rigs and sinkers, my day costs at least $110.
All for the honor of 2 keeper blackfish and 2 ling.
I love fishing. So I can justify it. For the less dedicated, it’s a different story.

[Duffman]

Its generational and not monetary.

If a parent is into fishing but never gets the kid(s) into fishing and away from playstations/xbox/iphone/insert electronic device here (shit I sound old!) why would they fish at all?

Participation dropping? No $hit im surprised

[NoLimit]

Definitely fewer people fishing on party boats. There are way less party boats and the remaining ones don't seem to carry as many people. Probably many reasons....not as many fish around, more restrictions, people have more options for entertainment.

That said, there seem to be many more people fishing in private boats. In addition, in year's past the party boats did not have to compete with all of the open charter boats. There are probably a few dozen on this board alone. Twenty years ago a lot of those customers would be on party boats. There are days when there are so many boats on the ocean it's crazy. So I'm not sure how much of a decline there is in fisherman, but I would definitely agree that party boat participation is way down.

RC

I don’t see how there are more private boats. It seems like so many marinas and trailer storage yards are gone in Sea Bright, Highlands and Atlantic Highlands. I see a lot fewer boats on the water.

[AndyS]

If there is one group the internet has drastically affected it has to the recreational fisherman.
Less people on party boats, I can see that. More people fishing kayaks in the back bays in May for jumbo tide runner weakfish, yes. The striped bass catches I have seen recently from boats as small as 17ft are amazing. Less people fishing overall, hard to say.
We debate this on the freshwater side also. Less people fishing for 9" inch stocked trout, probably. More people fishing for shad, walleye and bass in April, I think so. The internet has showed us we do not need to pack onto a railed party boat in order to catch a few fish. The internet has opened the eyes of many fresh water anglers I believe who used to sit and fish for stocked trout but now see all the other options available this time of year. Things are changing more rapidly now for fishermen. Instead of sitting and waiting people may drive 5 or 10 hours to the good fishing. There are many options open to us now and to me the most amazing catches come from small kayaks !!

[bulletbob]

I don’t see how there are more private boats. It seems like so many marinas and trailer storage yards are gone in Sea Bright, Highlands and Atlantic Highlands. I see a lot fewer boats on the water.

Fewer boats?/.. where?...
i have been fishing NY Bight waters for 55 years... The small boat traffic out there on fishable days is 10 times what I used to see as a young man... bob

[bulletbob]

Definitely fewer people fishing on party boats. There are way less party boats and the remaining ones don't seem to carry as many people. Probably many reasons....not as many fish around, more restrictions, people have more options for entertainment.

That said, there seem to be many more people fishing in private boats. In addition, in year's past the party boats did not have to compete with all of the open charter boats. There are probably a few dozen on this board alone. Twenty years ago a lot of those customers would be on party boats. There are days when there are so many boats on the ocean it's crazy. So I'm not sure how much of a decline there is in fisherman, but I would definitely agree that party boat participation is way down.

RC

This reply is pretty close.. the 6 packs/Open charter operations have taken business away from party boats.. Its more expensive but its pretty much a given that typically you'l catch more fish.. I also agree the number of small boats out there is beyond comprehension these days... There are as many or more fishermen around today as there ever were, make no mistake.. The methods of how they get out there to the grounds has changed.... bob

[bowhunter]

Small boat registrations in NJ are down 30% since 2000.

[Capt. Debbie]

Does anyone rationally believe someone goes fishing on a boat to save on food money? Come on. lol

For most of us even if the boat is free you just drove past 50 fish stores to get to the boat to "try" to catch what's a sure shot to buy and cleaned a mile from your house.

It's a sport. Shit the tip for the mate could have bought you a cook at home dinner. LOL


A lot of things like blown weather forecasts change things. Even recreational boaters are down. Maybe even more concentrated.

When I first started with Sea Tow Sandy Hook back in 1999 there'd be fishing fleet in Sandy Hook and Raritan all day long into the darkness. In the last 10 years the same grounds are nearly deserted by 4pm. Visit the tip of the hook at 5-6pm in July and August and look east and west. It's not promising.





I definitely agree that party boat participation is down. On my last day out, a beautiful day, there were 8 people fishing on the boat. Why? Because unless you are dedicated, it’s tough to make an economic argument for hopping on board. After paying my fare, with gas and tolls, and a sandwich and soda, and ice, and a trip to the tackle store for rigs and sinkers, my day costs at least $110.
All for the honor of 2 keeper blackfish and 2 ling.
I love fishing. So I can justify it. For the less dedicated, it’s a different story.

[Detour66]

Small boat registrations in NJ are down 30% since 2000. This may be the case but the local marina's are still asking top dollar to keep your boat there. This is definitely a deterrent for those considering to buy a boat and looking at the overall cost!

[blindalfred]

Its generational and not monetary.

If a parent is into fishing but never gets the kid(s) into fishing and away from playstations/xbox/iphone/insert electronic device here (shit I sound old!) why would they fish at all?

Participation dropping? No $hit im surprised


Just an unscientific observation, but us old farts make up a large proportion of the party boat trips I go on. My boys fished all the way through high school, but now, only occasionally. Definitely generational.

[a-baum]

I personally think with the economy up the way it is, people have more money in their pockets and they are opting for charters and 6 packs. I used to organize a group of 6 from work to hit NJ in May/June every year for seabass/ling and it was maybe $100-$115 per person including tip depending on the chater. What's a full day on some party boats? $70-$100? For folks that don't do it often, a few extra bucks to have your own boat with your own friends is a no-brainer. It's more tailored toward what you and your buddies want to do. It's usually a better experience. That's just kind of my guess. If we see a downturn in the economy we might see a slight uptick in party boat participation.

[a-baum]

Just an unscientific observation, but us old farts make up a large proportion of the party boat trips I go on. My boys fished all the way through high school, but now, only occasionally. Definitely generational.
I don't know. I see a lot of younger folks on the weekend party boat trips.

[Capt Sal]

This reply is pretty close.. the 6 packs/Open charter operations have taken business away from party boats.. Its more expensive but its pretty much a given that typically you'l catch more fish.. I also agree the number of small boats out there is beyond comprehension these days... There are as many or more fishermen around today as there ever were, make no mistake.. The methods of how they get out there to the grounds has changed.... bob

You can not compare a Party Boat to a charter boat.I myself want to hook my own fish not wait for my turn on the hooked fish trolling.Charter boats are more diversified because they can troll,chunk, live line or jig.Big difference in price.If you you think you are going out for a day on the water to fill the freezer you are living in the past.Recreational fishing is just what it means.Enjoy the day on the water and if you get a nice dinner out of it even better.

[hammer4reel]

I don’t see how there are more private boats. It seems like so many marinas and trailer storage yards are gone in Sea Bright, Highlands and Atlantic Highlands. I see a lot fewer boats on the water.

I would bet there are at least ten times the boats fishing those local waters then just 10 years ago.

even well into the winter the amount of trailered boats chasing stripers well after the marinas are closed for the year, you can walk across the boats from the rocks to LBI.

.

[hammer4reel]

Does anyone rationally believe someone goes fishing on a boat to save on food money? Come on. lol

For most of us even if the boat is free you just drove past 50 fish stores to get to the boat to "try" to catch what's a sure shot to buy and cleaned a mile from your house.

It's a sport. Shit the tip for the mate could have bought you a cook at home dinner. LOL


A lot of things like blown weather forecasts change things. Even recreational boaters are down. Maybe even more concentrated.

When I first started with Sea Tow Sandy Hook back in 1999 there'd be fishing fleet in Sandy Hook and Raritan all day long into the darkness. In the last 10 years the same grounds are nearly deserted by 4pm. Visit the tip of the hook at 5-6pm in July and August and look east and west. It's not promising.

do the same thing at first light you can walk across the boats,
Guys def stop sooner in the evening than in the past but its not lack of boats.
IMO most guys see that since Sandy , no matter what the weather calls for the south winds come cranking at around 2 pm every day, and get worse as the day goes on.
Many days the ride in at 5 or 6 is a PIA if heading south.

Back in 2007 there were about 6 CC over 31'. now ona given weekend you can count 50 or more

[NoLimit]

Small boat registrations in NJ are down 30% since 2000.

That’s about right from what I see. I have lots of video from fluke fishing I’m Sandy Hook bay and Raritan Bay in the 80’s and 90’s and it’s less now.

[fish4fun]

Was talking to a long time party boat captain and the boats owners yesterday. Their consensus is that it seems there are less people fishing. As they look over numbers from previous months,years ect. they are seeing a downward trend. Just curious as to what the boards thoughts were on the subject.

This is a no brainer. The cost to go fishing for a day has gone up but so has everything else including buying fish at a store. The money is not the only reason. It's simple...fishing ain't what it use to be. Years ago you came home with more then you really needed because they kept biting and you kept reeling in. Between us and the commercial trawlers the grounds have been stripped clean. The recent hurricanes can also be blamed for reshaping the bottom. I want action when I fish. They all don't have to be keepers. I don't want to stand there all day and not have anything to do but stare at the water. I personally am a catch and release person but I want action. There just ain't any anymore and that includes stripers as well as fluke and other species. This is why I don't go fishing as much as I have in the past. Just to be clear I am a party boat fisherman. Edited part: In the past I have rejected global warming as a farce but I now accept it as fact. Perhaps the warmer waters of Raritan Bay have forced our fish to seek cooler temps in the deeper waters. If that is the case then 1/2 day boats have no future since they don't have the time to travel further. It will be sad if that happens because I am a 1/2 day boater.

[O'Man]

That’s about right from what I see. I have lots of video from fluke fishing I’m Sandy Hook bay and Raritan Bay in the 80’s and 90’s and it’s less now.

I fished that area from the 80's through 2005. I got so sick of the big crowds, and bad behavior that I fished elsewhere 2007 through 20013. I heard sandy drove away the big crowds, and I came back. I do not find it anywhere near a crowded as it was before. Still more JO behavior than some other areas though.

[Capt Sal]

I am going every chance i get. AOC says the end is near so i am going to max out my credit cards also.:confused:

[dales529]

Great another post gone south by differing recreational fishermen opinion.
The original poster brought up a valid point from the PB for hire fleet.
Stripers in Raritan bay when "HOT" do draw a larger crowd but for the most part recreational fishing "effort" is WAAAAY down. Wish more for hire guys would chime in. Some open boat guys get the bookings but a lot stay in port.

This is exactly one reason of many why we get screwed year in and year out. If fishing effort is down which I firmly believe since Hurricane Sandy than an argument could be made to NOAA / ASMFC etc that effort or lack of needs to be added to the science. Instead we differ and over fish our quota by MRIP standards as there are thousands of boats out all year every day! But yet no one files "count my fish"

I personally have to go by what I SEE on the water and fish mainly weekdays. Most sunny flat ocean weekdays in May, June , July and August are an empty ocean, a few hundred boats but by far not thousands or walk across from. Michael Phelps couldnt swim from one to the other. Most days you need binoculars to see who is the small fleet. Marinas in PP, Belmar and north on weekdays have more boats in port than out by 70 to 80%.

High jacking this thread as well for the political side since others do:
I believe we should stop taking spawning fish of all species. I believe you can not deny climate change and the effects on fish migration etc as nature doesn't argue it just reacts and fish of all species are changing their patterns some in our favor and most to the north for cooler water. It just IS a fact

Other unexplained oddities: Winter Flounder offshore (too many stripers so they moved?) Weakfish 50 miles out? Sailfish in Cape Cod? Whiting back in huge numbers in MA, NH. Fluke in Nova Scotia in large numbers?

[hammer4reel]

Great another post gone south by differing recreational fishermen opinion.
The original poster brought up a valid point from the PB for hire fleet.
Stripers in Raritan bay when "HOT" do draw a larger crowd but for the most part recreational fishing "effort" is WAAAAY down. Wish more for hire guys would chime in. Some open boat guys get the bookings but a lot stay in port.

This is exactly one reason of many why we get screwed year in and year out. If fishing effort is down which I firmly believe since Hurricane Sandy than an argument could be made to NOAA / ASMFC etc that effort or lack of needs to be added to the science. Instead we differ and over fish our quota by MRIP standards as there are thousands of boats out all year every day! But yet no one files "count my fish"

I personally have to go by what I SEE on the water and fish mainly weekdays. Most sunny flat ocean weekdays in May, June , July and August are an empty ocean, a few hundred boats but by far not thousands or walk across from. Michael Phelps couldnt swim from one to the other. Most days you need binoculars to see who is the small fleet. Marinas in PP, Belmar and north on weekdays have more boats in port than out by 70 to 80%.

High jacking this thread as well for the political side since others do:
I believe we should stop taking spawning fish of all species. I believe you can not deny climate change and the effects on fish migration etc as nature doesn't argue it just reacts and fish of all species are changing their patterns some in our favor and most to the north for cooler water. It just IS a fact

Other unexplained oddities: Winter Flounder offshore (too many stripers so they moved?) Weakfish 50 miles out? Sailfish in Cape Cod? Whiting back in huge numbers in MA, NH. Fluke in Nova Scotia in large numbers?

here is a video Eddie made on my boat in December 2 seasons ago.
This was well after most marinas were closed.
I think even you could swim to each boat. and that just shows a small portion of the fleet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Bk-zHxGcc

we were outside of the fleet, which you can only see a part of

.

[NoLimit]

This is a no brainer. The cost to go fishing for a day has gone up but so has everything else including buying fish at a store. The money is not the only reason. It's simple...fishing ain't what it use to be. Years ago you came home with more then you really needed because they kept biting and you kept reeling in. Between us and the commercial trawlers the grounds have been stripped clean. The recent hurricanes can also be blamed for reshaping the bottom. I want action when I fish. They all don't have to be keepers. I don't want to stand there all day and not have anything to do but stare at the water. I personally am a catch and release person but I want action. There just ain't any anymore and that includes stripers as well as fluke and other species. This is why I don't go fishing as much as I have in the past. Just to be clear I am a party boat fisherman. Edited part: In the past I have rejected global warming as a farce but I now accept it as fact. Perhaps the warmer waters of Raritan Bay have forced our fish to seek cooler temps in the deeper waters. If that is the case then 1/2 day boats have no future since they don't have the time to travel further. It will be sad if that happens because I am a 1/2 day boater. Well you missed the boat again... It is now Global Cooling https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/30214-nasa-sees-climate-cooling-trend-thanks-to-low-sun-activity

[NoLimit]

This is a no brainer. The cost to go fishing for a day has gone up but so has everything else including buying fish at a store. The money is not the only reason. It's simple...fishing ain't what it use to be. Years ago you came home with more then you really needed because they kept biting and you kept reeling in. Between us and the commercial trawlers the grounds have been stripped clean. The recent hurricanes can also be blamed for reshaping the bottom. I want action when I fish. They all don't have to be keepers. I don't want to stand there all day and not have anything to do but stare at the water. I personally am a catch and release person but I want action. There just ain't any anymore and that includes stripers as well as fluke and other species. This is why I don't go fishing as much as I have in the past. Just to be clear I am a party boat fisherman. Edited part: In the past I have rejected global warming as a farce but I now accept it as fact. Perhaps the warmer waters of Raritan Bay have forced our fish to seek cooler temps in the deeper waters. If that is the case then 1/2 day boats have no future since they don't have the time to travel further. It will be sad if that happens because I am a 1/2 day boater. Well you missed the boat again...


It is now Global Cooling https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/30214-nasa-sees-climate-cooling-trend-thanks-to-low-sun-activity

[Capt Sal]

[QUOTE=dales529;529412]Great another post gone south by differing recreational fishermen opinion.
The original poster brought up a valid point from the PB for hire fleet.
Stripers in Raritan bay when "HOT" do draw a larger crowd but for the most part recreational fishing "effort" is WAAAAY down. Wish more for hire guys would chime in.

The reason more ''For hire'' guys don't chime in obvious isn't it.They don't want to get in a pissing contest and they are trying to make a living. This striper run doesn't last forever and you have to go when you have the opportunity rain does not matter.The lack of participation on PB boats might have something to do with charter boats running open.Why book in advance when you can get a weather forecast and a fishing report and book an individual reservation instantly.Every charter boat out there would rather be booked up with charters than open boat.Got to make a living but that is tough way to do it.This is one of the best striper runs in years and i don't know what people are waiting for after cabin fever all winter.

[Tomm24]

Hey Hammer4reel that looks like my boat in the first minute.

[dales529]

here is a video Eddie made on my boat in December 2 seasons ago.
This was well after most marinas were closed.
I think even you could swim to each boat. and that just shows a small portion of the fleet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Bk-zHxGcc

we were outside of the fleet, which you can only see a part of

.

Dan nice video and boat. Granted and as I stated in my post a "HOT Striper Bite brings out the fleet. Not arguing just saying that years ago that same size fleet would be at multiple spots down the coast. Klondike , Manasquan Ridge, the Slough, Mudhole , The Rocks, Elberon, The Humpty Dumpty, Olies Lump, Seaside Lump, Barnaget ridge, the reefs, and inshore from PP south to LBI and PP north to at least Long Branch ALL had that size fleets back in the day from May - Sept. Effort is there some days but not most days. See you out there soon I hope

[dales529]

[QUOTE=dales529;529412]Great another post gone south by differing recreational fishermen opinion.
The original poster brought up a valid point from the PB for hire fleet.
Stripers in Raritan bay when "HOT" do draw a larger crowd but for the most part recreational fishing "effort" is WAAAAY down. Wish more for hire guys would chime in.

The reason more ''For hire'' guys don't chime in obvious isn't it.They don't want to get in a pissing contest and they are trying to make a living. This striper run doesn't last forever and you have to go when you have the opportunity rain does not matter.The lack of participation on PB boats might have something to do with charter boats running open.Why book in advance when you can get a weather forecast and a fishing report and book an individual reservation instantly.Every charter boat out there would rather be booked up with charters than open boat.Got to make a living but that is tough way to do it.This is one of the best striper runs in years and i don't know what people are waiting for after cabin fever all winter.

Capt Sal
Trust me I get it but for hire guys chiming in on business is not a pissing contest. Either fishing effort is up, the same or down is just a simple answer. Nothing to do with running open or PB . Only reason I bring it up is part of our regulations are formatted on perceived "fishing effort" so it would be nice if recreational fishermen could for once agree one way or the other. hope all is well and thanks as always for your input.