Striped Bass Spawn

[Billfish715]

This current striped bass spring run seems better than last year's run. It has me raising my eyebrows wondering and trying to understand what might be going on. Are these bass staging to move up the Hudson to spawn? If so, aren't they a bit late for that? Maybe they are staging to move farther upstream into the Raritan to spawn? Where were they during the winter? Are any of them Chesapeake stock?

We haven't seen the migration of post spawn bass from the south so far. They usually show up later next month. So, what do any of you amateur or professional marine biologists think is going on?

It might help resolve some of the controversy about keeping early season bass or fishing for them exclusively during the spawn. If regulations have to be adjusted to protect a vulnerable resource because of changing migrational patterns, then so be it.

Maybe it has been going on for years but because of social media instead of newspaper reports, we now are more aware of who catches what and how many.
The reports make it sound like there is a slaughter going on. We are our own problem when we post and chest thump.

I would like to know if the current run of bass is being adversely affected by harvesting bass that have yet to spawn. If these are, local, Jersey fish that are being harvested, their spawning habits at least deserve a scientific evaluation, less we do more harm than good.

[AndyS]

They spawn in the Raritan, since when ???

[Billfish715]

They spawn in the Raritan, since when ???

Is there fresh water in the Raritan? Are striped bass often caught in and around Bound Brook? Is the river cleaner now than it was 50 years ago? There's a good chance there is some spawning going on. How much has yet to be determined.

[dakota560]

This current striped bass spring run seems better than last year's run. It has me raising my eyebrows wondering and trying to understand what might be going on. Are these bass staging to move up the Hudson to spawn? If so, aren't they a bit late for that? Maybe they are staging to move farther upstream into the Raritan to spawn? Where were they during the winter? Are any of them Chesapeake stock?

We haven't seen the migration of post spawn bass from the south so far. They usually show up later next month. So, what do any of you amateur or professional marine biologists think is going on?

It might help resolve some of the controversy about keeping early season bass or fishing for them exclusively during the spawn. If regulations have to be adjusted to protect a vulnerable resource because of changing migrational patterns, then so be it.

Maybe it has been going on for years but because of social media instead of newspaper reports, we now are more aware of who catches what and how many.
The reports make it sound like there is a slaughter going on. We are our own problem when we post and chest thump.

I would like to know if the current run of bass is being adversely affected by harvesting bass that have yet to spawn. If these are, local, Jersey fish that are being harvested, their spawning habits at least deserve a scientific evaluation, less we do more harm than good.

Billfish good question which I don't have the answer for, maybe others do. I know there's been some heated discussion about this and other matters lately so I'm replying with facts and what is intended as constructive discussion. If not, I'll deal with the consequences because I don't want to see this fishery go through what it did in the 70's and early 80's as I'm sure many here who experienced the striped bass collapse at the time would agree. I've been told fisheries management does not like use of the term "collapse" but to sugar coat it any other way just avoids the truth of what happened to a very important fishery 40-50 years ago.

When a fishery goes from 250 million pounds of spawning stock biomass in '04 to 150 million lbs. in '17 (40% reduction) and recruitment (egg production) drops from 320,000,000 in '04 to approximately 110,000,000 in '17 (approximately 66% reduction) with a low of approximately 65,000,000 in '13 there's a major problem.

This is where marine fisheries is missing the boat. Those trends are alarming and should be of concern to everyone involved with this fishery 10-yrs ago when the trend started to develop. When a fishery starts showing signs of weakness, be proactive and implement change before the chart looks like it did in the early '80's. Instead we procrastinate until states like Va. take draconian measures to close the fishery.

As I said before, any fishery showing a decline in recruitment of this magnitude, in my opinion, should close the spawn season until the problem is identified, remedial measure implemented, recruitment rebounds and the fishery is considered stable. There's two choices we all have, ignore the facts and trends and lose the fishery again for decades which will have significant social and economic impacts or take a much lesser hit in closing it for a month or so until the spawn is over to prevent those social and economic impacts from occurring. It's exactly the same situation we're going through right now with summer flounder. A major decline in recruitment and NMFS allows commercial harvest during the spawn with ZERO understanding of the impacts it's having on egg production. Absolutely senseless management.

Those decisions shouldn't fall on the public, they should be part of a comprehensive management plan by the governing councils. In fresh water, walleye season in March and April is essentially closed, catch and release only. Largemouth and smallmouth the same April 15 - June 15. They protect the spawn to sustain these fisheries, a concept salt water fisheries management has yet to comprehend. How does NOAA and the various councils look at the attached chart and continue with existing regulations that caused these trends to occur over the last seventeen years?

[AndyS]

I just want to see the written proof striped bass spawn in the Raritan river because I have been looking for over 10 years now and I can't find anything.

[Billfish715]

From a few of my tagged striped bass returns I've only been able to see a north-south/south-north migration pattern. Fish I've tagged during the fall migration have been recaptured from Connecticut and Long Island waters in the spring. One tagged bass that I caught and retagged (off Island Beach) was headed south in the fall after being tagged in the upper Hudson River that spring. I have no first-hand information about tagged Raritan Bay stripers.

I'm curious about any experiences other taggers have had with tag returns from bass they tagged in Raritan Bay. It's one way to help understand patterns and trends specific to the local striiped bass population and their spawning/migrations.

[Billfish715]

I just want to see the written proof striped bass spawn in the Raritan river because I have been looking for over 10 years now and I can't find anything.

Hey Andy, Maybe this will get us a few answers. Lots of people read this board and there are lots of good minds out there. I'm sure there will be some logical and valid responses.

There has to be some merit to the fact that the striped bass now in residence in the San Francisco Bay estuary are from broodstock that were relocated from the Navesink River in New Jersey. We all know that the Shrewsbury and Navesink Rivers eventually connect with the Sandy Hook and Raritan Bays. The bass were here a long time ago. There's a good chance they are still here doing what they did then.

[Treebeard63]

"" This current striped bass spring run seems better than last year's run. It has me raising my eyebrows wondering and trying to understand what might be going on. Are these bass staging to move up the Hudson to spawn? If so, aren't they a bit late for that? Maybe they are staging to move farther upstream into the Raritan to spawn? Where were they during the winter? Are any of them Chesapeake stock? "

Most of the fish in and around Raritan bay are staging for the spawning run up the Hudson.. and no it is not late for that.. it's right on time.. I've been fishing the Hudson spring run since the 70's.. I mostly fish the stretches 10-20 miles
either side of Kingston NY.. where much of the actual spawning takes place.. The timing of the run is pretty predictable.. I learned the ropes from a former fisheries biologist, who explained the run is triggered more by photo-period (day length) than anything else..and that has proven true over the years.. We'll see the 1st push of mostly schoolie males showing upriver about the 2nd week in April.. coincidentally, the Blueback Herring will start filtering in on their spawning mission about the same time.. by the end of the month, some of the bigger females will start showing up in numbers, and the schools continue to build up and mix through month of May.. Usually we'll see the "peak" of the run about mid May.. By the end of May, into early June temps get right for actual spawning to take place.. by the 2nd week of June most years its all over in the upper river ..as the temps get too warm and the fish drop back.. Fluctuating temps from year to year may effect how well they bite, and actual spawning times.. in warm springs it may end a week or 2 sooner, but the actual migration is very predictable.. and as usual, right on time..

[Treebeard63]

From a few of my tagged striped bass returns I've only been able to see a north-south/south-north migration pattern. Fish I've tagged during the fall migration have been recaptured from Connecticut and Long Island waters in the spring. One tagged bass that I caught and retagged (off Island Beach) was headed south in the fall after being tagged in the upper Hudson River that spring. I have no first-hand information about tagged Raritan Bay stripers.

I'm curious about any experiences other taggers have had with tag returns from bass they tagged in Raritan Bay. It's one way to help understand patterns and trends specific to the local striiped bass population and their spawning/migrations.

A buddy and I went on a tagging spree on my boat up here on the river for a few years..He has better figures, but over the course of a few seasons in the late '90s we stuck 200-300 Littoral Society tags in Bass of various sizes.. getting 20-30 returns.. Many from the lower river/R-bay.. several off Long Island, if a recall one made it as far north as Maine, and another as far south as Delaware.. but it seems most stayed fairly local to NY/NJ southern New England..

[Gerry Zagorski]

We had an interesting discussion on this a while back here:

http://www.njfishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67172

I'm no expert, but I think there very well could be Stripers spawning in the Raritan River. Certainly not in the numbers like we have in the Hudson or Chesapeake.. The river does have all the makings of what is needed for them to spawn there, ocean access, brackish and fresh water etc...

Now that many Dams have been removed and water quality has improved, this article would indicate we do have Stripers spawning in the Raritan River https://www.jcaa.org/JCNL1410/1410RiverDams.htm

[Gumada]

In the past I worked in Raritan Center, I would go down and cast small metals around the parkway bridge to get out of the office for a bit. I caught many 8-12 inch stripers there. It might be an indication they DO spawn in the RR...and have for at least 2 decades. The limited pressure they receive may be contributing to the growing run. ?

[Adrenalinerush]

"" This current striped bass spring run seems better than last year's run. It has me raising my eyebrows wondering and trying to understand what might be going on. Are these bass staging to move up the Hudson to spawn? If so, aren't they a bit late for that? Maybe they are staging to move farther upstream into the Raritan to spawn? Where were they during the winter? Are any of them Chesapeake stock? "

Most of the fish in and around Raritan bay are staging for the spawning run up the Hudson.. and no it is not late for that.. it's right on time.. I've been fishing the Hudson spring run since the 70's.. I mostly fish the stretches 10-20 miles
either side of Kingston NY.. where much of the actual spawning takes place.. The timing of the run is pretty predictable.. I learned the ropes from a former fisheries biologist, who explained the run is triggered more by photo-period (day length) than anything else..and that has proven true over the years.. We'll see the 1st push of mostly schoolie males showing upriver about the 2nd week in April.. coincidentally, the Blueback Herring will start filtering in on their spawning mission about the same time.. by the end of the month, some of the bigger females will start showing up in numbers, and the schools continue to build up and mix through month of May.. Usually we'll see the "peak" of the run about mid May.. By the end of May, into early June temps get right for actual spawning to take place.. by the 2nd week of June most years its all over in the upper river ..as the temps get too warm and the fish drop back.. Fluctuating temps from year to year may effect how well they bite, and actual spawning times.. in warm springs it may end a week or 2 sooner, but the actual migration is very predictable.. and as usual, right on time..


Have fished the Hudson for decades for the spawners. You time tables are pretty much right on. Gonna get good soon!

[Gerry Zagorski]

In the past I worked in Raritan Center, I would go down and cast small metals around the parkway bridge to get out of the office for a bit. I caught many 8-12 inch stripers there. It might be an indication they DO spawn in the RR...and have for at least 2 decades. The limited pressure they receive may be contributing to the growing run. ?

Middle of the winter a lot of schoolies up by the New Brunswick area bridges too..

[Billfish715]

So, I guess we can conclude there are stripers that spawn in the Raritan River and will be spawning sometime in the next few days or weeks. If there are small fish around the area, they had to be hatched somewhere nearby. The Raritan Bay has already been identified as a staging area for spawning bass. We know that many of them do migrate up the Hudson where it is not uncommon to catch super-sized females up to almost Albany. While the N.J. season for stripers opens in Raritan Bay and the state's rivers on March 1st, the N.Y. state season opens on April 1st. Besides delaying the opening day of striper season on the Hudson, there are also some possession regulations. Their size limits primarily protect the medium sized females during the spawn. 1 fish between 18 and 28 inches total length OR 1 fish larger than 40 inches is what they allow.

If it appears the Raritan Bay fishery for striped bass should be better protected, perhaps there can be a comparable set of regulations similar to those of N.Y. state. Delaying the start of the season for striper fishing in the bay might be a compromise. But, as i mentioned before, a more complete study of the striper fishing in the Raritan River system including the Raritan Bay, is warranted. I'm assuming that since the bay area including the lower N.Y. harbor area is considered "marine" waters, adjusting any current regulations will be a challenge. Given the shared waters with Staten Island, finding a compromise will be even more difficult.

It's worth considering and might be a solution to the debate of whether to keep or not keep a pre-spawn bass.

[AndyS]

So you think we should shut down Raritan bay in the spring and have no striped bass fishing, that should sit well with all the charter boats and party boats.

[dakota560]

So you think we should shut down Raritan bay in the spring and have no striped bass fishing, that should sit well with all the charter boats and party boats.

Think Billfish said delay, not shut down. The alternative is ignore the trend and have regulators shut the season down all together so those same charter and party boats can run combined flounder and bass specials down the road in the spring. And if time allows, they can swing by the Cedars for some ling! Can't harvest what isn't there. that's where were headed if changes aren't made, people have been saying it for years.

[Gerry Zagorski]

WHOA!!! Let's slow down here... We're talking about people's recreation and livelihood here!!

While I agree people should be conscious of preserving the resource and releasing the female breeders, we don't need the state or the feds imposing a delayed or postponed season on us..

First of all, we already have some pretty strict recreational regulations here in NJ and in the federal waters outside the 3 mile line you can't keep a Striper. Here in NJ there is also a ban on commercial fishing. Besides, you know what happens each time the government gets involved... This opens up Pandora's Box and you'll have every environmentally extreme group looking to close the entire fishery down.... You give them a crack in the door, I can assure you they'll be looking to bust the door down.

Next, the timing is different each year and there are many different stocks involved.. Yes you obviously have the Hudson Stripers but may also have some Chesapeake Stripers in the mix that may have already spawned out...

I'm all for doing what we can to educate people about the breeding stocks and the choices they make about keeping breeders... What I don't want is the government forcing even more restrictive laws on us.

Bottom line is we've made some great strides in bringing the populations of Stripers back from where they were in 80's and made a lot of sacrifices in terms of regulations along the way. While I think we should be mindful of protecting the resource for the future, we should also be allowed to enjoy the fishery that's been rebuilt and provide reasonable access to the resource.. At the same time we should be educating the recreational fishermen in the area about the benefits of releasing fish this time of year and we don't need to involve the Government to do that. That's on all of us...

Be careful about what you wish for since it may have unintended consequences.

[hammer4reel]

WHOA!!! Let's slow down here... We're talking about people's recreation and livelihood here!!

While I agree people should be conscious of preserving the resource and releasing the female breeders, we don't need the state or the feds imposing a delayed or postponed season on us..

First of all, we already have some pretty strict recreational regulations here in NJ and in the federal waters outside the 3 mile line you can't keep a Striper. Here in NJ there is also a ban on commercial fishing. Besides, you know what happens each time the government gets involved... This opens up Pandora's Box and you'll have every environmentally extreme group looking to close the entire fishery down.... You give them a crack in the door, I can assure you they'll be looking to bust the door down.

Next, the timing is different each year and there are many different stocks involved.. Yes you obviously have the Hudson Stripers but may also have some Chesapeake Stripers in the mix that may have already spawned out...

I'm all for doing what we can to educate people about the breeding stocks and the choices they make about keeping breeders... What I don't want is the government forcing even more restrictive laws on us.

Bottom line is we've made some great strides in bringing the populations of Stripers back from where they were in 80's and made a lot of sacrifices in terms of regulations along the way. While I think we should be mindful of protecting the resource for the future, we should also be allowed to enjoy the fishery that's been rebuilt and provide reasonable access to the resource.. At the same time we should be educating the recreational fishermen in the area about the benefits of releasing fish this time of year and we don't need to involve the Government to do that. That's on all of us...

Be careful about what you wish for since it may have unintended consequences.


You really need to start paying attention to what the other states are doing and had happened with possible season closures.
What he posted is already happenin g in VA.
Instead of promoting catch and release and keeping the season open . It's going to more than likely close next week to recreational fishing entirely .
While our hudson fishery appears to be holding strong ,the chessy stocks are hurting .

Promoting catch and release here until after the bass spawn would allow fisherman to still chase bass here .
Keep the take what's legal side .get the season closed and everyone loses.
.
.
Ask the charter boats in VA what they wished they had done now .instead of seeing their season closed.

[Detour66]

Is the interest in early back bay striper fishing by so many fisherman with boats a recent occurrence? I believe the early season interest not so long ago was mostly by guys fishing from shore. If this is the case what has changed? Also I am surprised that the party boat fleet that use to start early in the season for winter flounder hasn't now switched over to this fishery yet? What's your take?

[dakota560]

WHOA!!! Let's slow down here... We're talking about people's recreation and livelihood here!!

While I agree people should be conscious of preserving the resource and releasing the female breeders, we don't need the state or the feds imposing a delayed or postponed season on us..

First of all, we already have some pretty strict recreational regulations here in NJ and in the federal waters outside the 3 mile line you can't keep a Striper. Here in NJ there is also a ban on commercial fishing. Besides, you know what happens each time the government gets involved... This opens up Pandora's Box and you'll have every environmentally extreme group looking to close the entire fishery down.... You give them a crack in the door, I can assure you they'll be looking to bust the door down.

Next, the timing is different each year and there are many different stocks involved.. Yes you obviously have the Hudson Stripers but may also have some Chesapeake Stripers in the mix that may have already spawned out...

I'm all for doing what we can to educate people about the breeding stocks and the choices they make about keeping breeders... What I don't want is the government forcing even more restrictive laws on us.

Bottom line is we've made some great strides in bringing the populations of Stripers back from where they were in 80's and made a lot of sacrifices in terms of regulations along the way. While I think we should be mindful of protecting the resource for the future, we should also be allowed to enjoy the fishery that's been rebuilt and provide reasonable access to the resource.. At the same time we should be educating the recreational fishermen in the area about the benefits of releasing fish this time of year and we don't need to involve the Government to do that. That's on all of us...

Be careful about what you wish for since it may have unintended consequences.

Gerry so you disagree with what the data suggests in other words. SSB isn't down 40% and recruitment isn't down over 60% in a fishery where catch is made up of 90% recreational harvest. Be careful what we ask for I agree but if we don't change the decisions will be made not in our favor whether we ask or not. My post was meant to say be proactive so there's less social and economic impact going forward. I guess you take offense to that and would advise we stay the path that has once again led to a significant decline in a fishery and not do anything to reverse that trend. My apologies in advance but I simply don't agree with that philosophy. Ban me if you wish for stating my opinion but that is precisely what led to the collapse in the seventies and eighties because instead of addressing the problem we elected to look the other way. And when I say we I include recreational anglers, commercial operators but mostly Fishery Management in that statement.

[reason162]

A paradigm shift is in order. Treat our stripers like they treat tarpon down south. It is as noble a fish, and imo the presumption that people won't go fishing for them if they can't kill them for food is 100% wrong. Fluke, seabass, yes...striped bass, no. People will line up and pay for an abundance of big predatory game fish, and none are bigger (or more beautiful) than our striped bass.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: charter/party boat captains can shift the perception of this fishery overnight. Mount a gopro on your boat, have your mate wear one on his hat...offer your clients HD footage of the fight and release. Those memories will be worth 10x the weight of dead bass at the dock.

This is the one fishery decline that we can't blame the commercials for. Manage for abundance, and everyone wins, including the for-hire fleet.

[hammer4reel]

A paradigm shift is in order. Treat our stripers like they treat tarpon down south. It is as noble a fish, and imo the presumption that people won't go fishing for them if they can't kill them for food is 100% wrong. Fluke, seabass, yes...striped bass, no. People will line up and pay for an abundance of big predatory game fish, and none are bigger (or more beautiful) than our striped bass.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: charter/party boat captains can shift the perception of this fishery overnight. Mount a gopro on your boat, have your mate wear one on his hat...offer your clients HD footage of the fight and release. Those memories will be worth 10x the weight of dead bass at the dock.

This is the one fishery decline that we can't blame the commercials for. Manage for abundance, and everyone wins, including the for-hire fleet.



Exactly, give them gamefish status, entirely take commercial harvest out of the picture.

If you gave guys a choice.
Catch your limit of 1 bass you have to stop fishing for them, or can’t keep any but can catch and release all day.
Tell me which one is better for our charter industry.
Pretty sure most would rather continue to catch lots of them

.

[reason162]

If you gave guys a choice.
Catch your limit of 1 bass you have to stop fishing for them, or can’t keep any but can catch and release all day.

Think catch and release all day of TROPHY bass, an abundance of 30, 40, 50lb+ fish.

This is possible, but only if people start waking up before it's too late.

[dakota560]

Guys I couldn't agree more with both your posts. Reason the GoPro idea is an excellent way for for-hire businesses to market themselves and differentiate their business. Continue killing these breeders and there is no other result than history repeating itself and that benefits no one.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Gerry so you disagree with what the data suggests in other words. SSB isn't down 40% and recruitment isn't down over 60% in a fishery where catch is made up of 90% recreational harvest. Be careful what we ask for I agree but if we don't change the decisions will be made not in our favor whether we ask or not. My post was meant to say be proactive so there's less social and economic impact going forward. I guess you take offense to that and would advise we stay the path that has once again led to a significant decline in a fishery and not do anything to reverse that trend. My apologies in advance but I simply don't agree with that philosophy. Ban me if you wish for stating my opinion but that is precisely what led to the collapse in the seventies and eighties because instead of addressing the problem we elected to look the other way. And when I say we I include recreational anglers, commercial operators but mostly Fishery Management in that statement.

Tom - Ban you for posting your opinion, I think you know me better then that.

And for the benefit of others here, Commercial overfishing was a huge part of the problem that led to the demise of the fishery in the 70s. They were said to have harvested a record high 14.7 million pounds in 1973 and by 1983 it was down to 1.7 million pounds due to overfishing. Thankfully commercial harvesting is now in check and only counts for a small percentage of the total harvest so the issue, if in fact we have one, is an issue is with recreational fishing, not commercial...

Now lets look a recreational landings. From 2015-2017, recreational anglers harvested an estimated 16 million fish annually, which can be attributed to implementation of more restrictive regulations via Addendum IV. Of those coastwide recreational landings, Maryland landed the largest percent in 2017 in terms of number of fish (52%), followed by Massachusetts (16%), New York (10%), New Jersey (8%), and Virginia (5%).

So why are Chesapeake stocks hurting so much and why are they in the predicament they're in now?? Look no further then the landing data above.... Maryland alone was responsible for 52% of the landings and Virginia 5%... That's 57% of the landings right there.

All this information contained right here http://www.asmfc.org/species/atlantic-striped-bass

I think we in NJ are pretty good stewards of our resource, have made our sacrifices, we don't allow commercial fishing and we are responsible for only 8% of the total... Could we be better, yes I think we can and are... Times certainly have changed and I think we've all become more conservation minded recently.... Had I caught a 50 pound Striper back in the 90's, you can bet that me and a bunch of others would have thought nothing of taking that fish. Not the case today...People going out of there way to release the big girls now and educating others by example.

Should we be forced into the penalty box as a result of other state's overfishing like MD?? Well, it would be a shame and just might come to that with the lower SSBs but let's not bring that upon ourselves...

[Billfish715]

Before summarily dismissing my suggestion about moving the start of the striper season from March 1st to April 1st, look back at the dates of the first few striper reports on this board. There were no boat captains posting any of their catches until the beginning of April. If you look back at the posts of at least one prominent charter captain over the last six years, his reports only start during the first week of April.

As to the size and bag limits that I mentioned, N.Y. has it right. They do target stripers in the upper Hudson River during the spawning run but because of their size limits, it is illegal to harvest the larger (mainly female) stripers. Their limits allow one fish from 18-28 inches to be taken, or one fish over 40 inches. The smaller fish are predominately males. The Hudson striped bass fishery supports the striper fishery in a wide number of states. It is through their conservative efforts that we all have striped bass to catch. They must be doing something right!

Why can't we follow their lead for Raritan Bay? I'm old enough to remember when it was a big deal to fish for stripers in the Navesink with worms and being excited to catch 18" fish. I remember the bunker boats in the bay and the floating mats of dead menhaden from the overflow from their nets. The fishery has bounced back tremendously since then. There have been incredible efforts made to restore the fishery from the problems of a not-too-distant past.

Since there are no commercial fishermen to blame if the fishery begins to wane, we can only blame ourselves. No one likes changes but nothing can stay the same forever without some adjustments. It's just something to think about.

[dales529]

My 2 cents:
1) MRIP is what dictates the whole stock assessments which relates to SSB / recruitment analysis and with Summer Flounder as well as other species MRIP has come into doubt even among the councils that regulate our fisheries so ALL of the commentary is based on admittedly compromised yet peer reviewed data. Given thats all we have to use than I am ok with that to a certain extent for discussion.
In my opinion data collection in fisheries seems to be beyond human capability as even with today's advanced technology no one has a system that works yet.

2) Having said the above since its all we have to work than Dakota analysis of trends in the data show there is a problem, not for certain on stock assessments, SSB or recruitment (again MRIP being admittedly "faulty" but for certain that Fisheries management has failed to stop the trend within their own data by allowing the harvest of female breeders, harvesting spawning fish etc.

3) My biggest pet peeve and shown in the report Gerry posted and in the same link below is the perceived recreational fishing mortality estimates
http://www.asmfc.org/species/atlantic-striped-bass

Maybe in the way past but I for one don't believe the mortality rates are anywhere close to accurate with today's tackle technology and fishermen awareness and techniques.

So if we are to agree with the data and were to go to C&R for the spawning period our mortality rate would be as high as our projected harvest rate. So we fish all day releasing all fish and by the data we are still killing as many breeders at a very high rate which goes against what you guys are saying.
Again according to the data.

Proper stock assessment and accurately identifying recreational catch including a more realistic mortality rate should be the primary focus and until its done right everything else is just a guess.

[dakota560]

Dave,

I respect your opinion as much as anyone else on the board and you are without doubt my mentor. Problem is we can question the data all we want but the data is what dictates the rules that we are regulated by. The percentages factored into recreational mortality rates are an absolute joke and significantly higher now than when people were dragging bait back in the 90's which is an impossibility. MRIP as I've stated before is nothing more than a culmination of guesstimates. If SAW 57 versus 66 can have a 40% variance based on MRIP reference points, we're all screwed. The process is an entire mess but my opinion is there's one common thread throughout all these stocks. If recruitment isn't increasing, it's decreasing. If it's decreasing we have a problem. You can narrow it to three possible options. Commercial and or recreational harvest during the spawn is disrupting and or destroying egg production. Second the increased harvest in sexually mature fish (SSB) is killing recruitment. Or third there are environmental issues at play that we need to understand effecting recruitment. My opinion is it's a combination of number one and number two.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Before summarily dismissing my suggestion about moving the start of the striper season from March 1st to April 1st, look back at the dates of the first few striper reports on this board. There were no boat captains posting any of their catches until the beginning of April. If you look back at the posts of at least one prominent charter captain over the last six years, his reports only start during the first week of April.

As to the size and bag limits that I mentioned, N.Y. has it right. They do target stripers in the upper Hudson River during the spawning run but because of their size limits, it is illegal to harvest the larger (mainly female) stripers. Their limits allow one fish from 18-28 inches to be taken, or one fish over 40 inches. The smaller fish are predominately males. The Hudson striped bass fishery supports the striper fishery in a wide number of states. It is through their conservative efforts that we all have striped bass to catch. They must be doing something right!

Why can't we follow their lead for Raritan Bay? I'm old enough to remember when it was a big deal to fish for stripers in the Navesink with worms and being excited to catch 18" fish. I remember the bunker boats in the bay and the floating mats of dead menhaden from the overflow from their nets. The fishery has bounced back tremendously since then. There have been incredible efforts made to restore the fishery from the problems of a not-too-distant past.

Since there are no commercial fishermen to blame if the fishery begins to wane, we can only blame ourselves. No one likes changes but nothing can stay the same forever without some adjustments. It's just something to think about.

Bill not sure if you were addressing me in particular here but I felt the need to respond ... May has in the past been the timing of our full out Raritan Bay Spring Striper season if you look at it over time... This year it started early in April but it varies every year so what to do now, close it down April and May??? This year the Stripers showed up in early April on the ocean side which usually does not happen until late May, early June, do we deny these people their enjoyment due to some arbitrary dates we pick out of a crystal Striper migrating ball?? These regulations are absolute and set many months in advance so hard to predict what will happen each year so far in advance to be practical...

NY can do what they'd like since in their waters, they act under the sovereignty as a state.... Not saying there are right or wrong but you can plainly see where that's gotten them... More restrictive regulations each year and fishing businesses going under every year... Yet they harvest more then we do... 10% vs 8% and they still have a commercial fishery... You want to follow their lead??? Not sure I do and have 75% of the fishing businesses we need to feed our habit go out of business....

Yes Bunker have come back in a big way but that was due to the legislation that kept the big sinners (reduction boats) out of our state waters and more to be done there... Stripers and others need forage. My God, how cool is it to regularly see the Nat Geo stuff like Whales feeding inshore here in NJ!!

And finally something you and I are in agreement with... The commercial fishery is not the enemy here, we recreational fishermen are... We need to be better stewards of the fishery and the states that raped the fishery should suffer. At the end of the day it's like running a family with kids... Do all the kids get put in time out as the result of one bad kid? No, you reward the kids who do a good job and you punish the kids who don't..

BTW... Enjoying our lively debate here and don't mean to go head to head with you. This post and all the commentary serves us all to think about and express our point of view and get people thinking....One common goal I think we can all agree on is to protect this fishery and our great sport for the enjoyment of future generations.. And just like the stock market, pigs get slaughtered.

Respectfully

Gerry

[NoLimit]

This is the best striper fishing in a gazillion years and it’s because we stopped the staggers, plain and simple. Keeping one Fish a day will never deplete the sticks

[Billfish715]

Gerry, This has been a lively and intelligent sharing of ideas and thoughts. Discussion of differences is healthy and keeps attention focused on our responsibilities as stewards of the sea. We may not all agree on our methods but we do all agree on our motives; which are to keep our sport alive and well.

There is a lot to consider when discussing spawning and the future of any particular fish species. Just consider the arguments that have been going on about the impact of killing larger female fluke and equate the argument to what is being said about striped bass. Female fluke are bigger and produce lots of eggs. They are being harvested offshore during their spawning cycle. We all agree that killing those females before they spawn has been a major reason for the decline of the fluke stocks. What many fishermen are asking others to consider is how the harvest of pre-spawn stripers will eventually affect that species.

We are all charged with educating the public about its responsibility to preserve the future of striper fishing. This forum is a good place to start. Private boaters and charter captains all have to be in agreement and be able to make informed choices.