"Fresh Fluke" at local chain grocery store

[Detour66]

My wife just showed me the weekly ad for a well known chain grocery store and fresh Fluke is on "Sale" for $24.95 a lb. No wonder why they have the regulations they have. The ocean and bays are paved with $$$ and they don't want us to have it. It's outrageous!

[Reel Class]

Draggers have a shot at them now out to the east. These are the fish that they are catching. It's been going on for decades. But I do understand your displeasure!

[Merle31483]

Absolutely insane never in my right mind would I even think about buying fluke even inseason in NJ even if I wasn't catching them I would buy it and at the price of almost 25$ per pound you would have to be off your rocking chair unreal

[EddieG]

This is one that aggravates me to no end either... just the other day I was at wegmans and saw three whole fluke for sale at a ridiculous price as well.. and let’s just say they were no where near our 18 inch regulations at all... Whole Foods is another good one that sells sea bass for 19.99 a pound whole. I would guess I would get 3 to 4 whole fish to equal one pound ... I understand that they have a different size quota but these fish don’t even have a chance to reproduce before they are caught in these nets... come on!!

[Mike K]

:) Another way to look at these prices is that they reflect the excellent quality of New Jersey seafood. And how lucky are we to be able to bring home fish of a quality that the average consumer will never enjoy?

[bulletbob]

:) Another way to look at these prices is that they reflect the excellent quality of New Jersey seafood. And how lucky are we to be able to bring home fish of a quality that the average consumer will never enjoy?

I don't look at it that way at all

[FISHGERE]

Costco 999 a bag wild caught flounder pretty good stuff no bones as for fluking lot of guys are just taking chances most are fed up

[AndyS]

Who in their right mind is gonna spend 25 bux for a pound of fish, lobsters are cheaper !! It will rot on the shelf and get thrown in the trash.

[celticcross]

The reason why the regs stay at 14" for the commercials and only the quota changes is that they would have to get new nets every time there is a size change.They would go out of business. We all enjoy stuffed flounder at our favorite restaurant or on our seafood platter. how do you think it gets there.

[bulletbob]

I love fresh fish, that I catch only. Seldom purchase "fresh" fin fish.I would rather go without than buy something that was caught 2 weeks ago and put on ice...

That being said, when plain old fluke is going for $25 a pound, and I can can get a 5 pound bag of Gulf Shrimp for under $60, or about $ 12.50 a pound, there's a big problem.. Lobster is even cheaper than $25 a pound, and if you shop diligently you can buy a pound of tails cheaper than $25.

No wonder the commercials are so relentless, you can't blame them at those kinds of prices.. Of course I realize that the guys that have to actually go and get these fish in horrible weather aren't getting these huge dollars, they are part of a distribution chain that a lot of money is being put into, and that we have little chance of reining in .. Might not be the commercial guys themselves, but at the prices I see regularly for fish, someone somewhere is making a lot of money through the netting of bottom fish... bob

[Blackfish Doug]

The reason why the regs stay at 14" for the commercials and only the quota changes is that they would have to get new nets every time there is a size change.They would go out of business. We all enjoy stuffed flounder at our favorite restaurant or on our seafood platter. how do you think it gets there.
There should be no size limits for the commercials just a pound limit. Very few of those fish that are under 14" will survive a release. It's better they take what they catch & leave. Plus very few of those fish are 14" a very good majority of those fish are a lot bigger. the reason why they created the 14" size was for dead discards.

[dakota560]

There should be no size limits for the commercials just a pound limit. Very few of those fish that are under 14" will survive a release. It's better they take what they catch & leave. Plus very few of those fish are 14" a very good majority of those fish are a lot bigger. the reason why they created the 14" size was for dead discards.

Doug I totally agree with your post. Problem is with no on board monitoring, culling has to be taking place for boats traveling essentially to the canyons this time of year. Smaller fish are going back dead to fill the quota with larger significantly more valuable larger fluke. The reg was put in place as you said to minimize dead discard but there's no means of monitoring whether that's actually the resulting impact. Problem with maintaining the smaller mesh size is the smaller less valuable fluke end up dead, increase the mesh size and those fish at least stand a chance of survival. Problem with both options is too many larger breeders are being taken under either scenario which is why reproduction is off by 80% from the 80's to today based on a spawning stock biomass that is almost two and a half times larger than it was in the 80's. Reproduction has been crushed while NMFS and ASMFC sit on their ass and propose regulations and policies that compound that very problem. No one is currently addressing the deterioration in reproduction, everyone is focused on total catch which is absolutely not the problem. Between 1989 and 2002 when the biomass exploded upward by 600%, annual catch averaged about 50% of the biomass every year. 50% annual catch ratio of the biomass and the biomass hit historically high levels. Today catch is averaging between 15% - 20% and the biomass has been shrinking every year since 2003 as size limits continue to be increased. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's happening and again as I've mentioned this is all based on NMFS and ASMFC's own data, not conjecture or third party information.

[Billfish715]

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2019/marlet-smrflndr_quota2019.pdf

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/comquotas.htm

The new commercial regs for fluke landings seems to have been reduced for 2019 by about 70,000 pounds (if I'm reading the letter correctly). What stands out, though, is the total allotted pounds of commercially landed fluke for the months of January and February and September and October. The quotas are drastically increased during the months when fluke are either on their spawning grounds or massing during their migration to those spawning grounds. The commercial boats may land 1500 pounds of fluke per week during those periods. The commercial limits are encouraging fishing for the spawning stocks which will eventually hurt everyone's future fishing potential including those of the commercial guys. Wake Up! I could be wrong, but I'll bet the wholesale price of fluke increases substantially during the same period. If so, the stimulus to catch more spawning fish is also substantially increased. Change the distribution of the quotas to put less pressure on the spawning fish.

[bulletbob]

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2019/marlet-smrflndr_quota2019.pdf

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/comquotas.htm

" I could be wrong, but I'll bet the wholesale price of fluke increases substantially during the same period. If so, the stimulus to catch more spawning fish is also substantially increased".

This post stated fluke was being sold retail at $25 a pound... How much higher can it go???.. If people are really THAT stupid that they'll pay $30-35 a pound for fluke, then they get what they deserve, Fluke is good, yes, but not THAT damn good.. no better than a haddock bergall, ling or any of a dozen other local species...,, bob

[june181901]

As sport anglers we are unable to hire the very effective lobbyists that the commercial groups do. We are very unorganized by comparison.

[Capt John]

As sport anglers we are unable to hire the very effective lobbyists that the commercial groups do. We are very unorganized by comparison.

No truer words have been spoken. Been that way for years. Here is something I Googled....The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) is an American scientific agency within the United States Department of Commerce. "Commerce" remember that and you'll understand where the problem is.

[Billfish715]

https://shop.fultonfishmarket.com/fresh-striped-bass.html

https://shop.fultonfishmarket.com/buy-fresh-southern-fluke.html

https://shop.fultonfishmarket.com/fresh-black-sea-bass.html


This post stated fluke was being sold retail at $25 a pound... How much higher can it go???.. If people are really THAT stupid that they'll pay $30-35 a pound for fluke, then they get what they deserve, Fluke is good, yes, but not THAT damn good.. no better than a haddock bergall, ling or any of a dozen other local species...,, bob

Hey Bob, Here are a few links to prices for popular wild fish which are sold "on line" through Fulton Fish Market. I guess there are some people who are really that "stupid". There is no explanation for taste or in this case price.

[bulletbob]

https://shop.fultonfishmarket.com/fresh-striped-bass.html

https://shop.fultonfishmarket.com/buy-fresh-southern-fluke.html

https://shop.fultonfishmarket.com/fresh-black-sea-bass.html


This post stated fluke was being sold retail at $25 a pound... How much higher can it go???.. If people are really THAT stupid that they'll pay $30-35 a pound for fluke, then they get what they deserve, Fluke is good, yes, but not THAT damn good.. no better than a haddock bergall, ling or any of a dozen other local species...,, bob

Hey Bob, Here are a few links to prices for popular wild fish which are sold "on line" through Fulton Fish Market. I guess there are some people who are really that "stupid". There is no explanation for taste or in this case price.


$37?.. FOR A FLUKE??.. Too many people smoking crack out there.. That $37 would buy pound each of big scallops and Gulf shrimp... bob

[porgylber]

https://shop.fultonfishmarket.com/fresh-striped-bass.html

https://shop.fultonfishmarket.com/buy-fresh-southern-fluke.html

https://shop.fultonfishmarket.com/fresh-black-sea-bass.html


This post stated fluke was being sold retail at $25 a pound... How much higher can it go???.. If people are really THAT stupid that they'll pay $30-35 a pound for fluke, then they get what they deserve, Fluke is good, yes, but not THAT damn good.. no better than a haddock bergall, ling or any of a dozen other local species...,, bob

Hey Bob, Here are a few links to prices for popular wild fish which are sold "on line" through Fulton Fish Market. I guess there are some people who are really that "stupid". There is no explanation for taste or in this case price.

Thanks for providing my laugh for the day! $6 for a 1 lb ling?!? $10 for a 1 lb mackerel?!? This is pure insanity. I’d love to know what their profit margin is. Someone is making a fortune!

[porgylber]

$37?.. FOR A FLUKE??.. Too many people smoking crack out there.. That $37 would buy pound each of big scallops and Gulf shrimp... bob
To put it in perspective, over the summer I went fishing out of Venice, LA. By the port there was a trailer, selling fresh jumbo Gulf shrimp...right off of the shrimp boats. The price? $4 a lb! The same shrimp that is being sold by this site for $120, for a 5 lb bag. Incredible.

[Billfish715]

There has to be a market for this type of sales. Fulton usually sells seafood in wholesale amounts. If you wanted to buy tuna, you might have to buy the whole loin as opposed to just a few steak as an example. The prices mentioned on the website are for online shoppers of whom there must be many. With all of the at-home shoppers, especially those in the city, it would not surprise me that someone would pay big bucks for some freshly frozen fish rather than having to go to the store or market to buy it.

And the beat goes on..........if there is a buyer, then there is a willing seller. If someone wants to pay a lot for their fish, there will always be someone to oblige them. Fluke is a tasty and desirable table fare. It's why it can fetch such a high price at the market. Maybe someone should start asking for more skate wings for dinner so the commercial guys would catch them and take the pressure off the fluke.

[Detour66]

this post stated fluke was being sold retail at $25 a pound... How much higher can it go???.. If people are really that stupid that they'll pay $30-35 a pound for fluke, then they get what they deserve, fluke is good, yes, but not that damn good.. No better than a haddock bergall, ling or any of a dozen other local species...,, bob
Bergall ???

[bulletbob]

Bergall ???

I was just pointing out that even a virtually worthless "junk" species could have meat as good as a fluke... Personally, I prefer the meat of bergalls to fluke.
fluke are pretty good, but not even close to a winter flounder, and for me personally, there are several other species that I like better... bob

[dales529]

As sport anglers we are unable to hire the very effective lobbyists that the commercial groups do. We are very unorganized by comparison.

Disagree with your first statement as we have "hired" very effective lobbyists such as RFA, we as sports anglers just choose NOT to fund them adequately.
We argue over species, conservation methods, mortality, which groups to support etc etc etc . So NOT unable just unwilling

Unorganized agreed but again all by choice

Commercial groups are all in with theirs as it encompasses all species / goals and they "get it" when it effects their business. We recs dont yet but hoping

[jigmup]

More expensive than Alaska King Crab leg

[dakota560]

Look at the attached charts and it's all you need to realize that the draconian regulations forced on both recreational and commercial interests intended to improve the fluke fishery have in fact caused it's decline.
Charts are based on NMFS and ASMFC data.

Chart 1 "Catch as a % of SSB" (Spawning Stock Biomass). Data is from 1982 thru 2015. You can clearly see how much less recreational and commercial harvest makes up of the existing biomass. Between 1989 and 2002, annual catch as a percentage of the biomass averaged approximately 70% annually while the biomass exploded up[ward by 600%. Catch was 20% in 2015, and is presumed to be closer to 15% today based on further catch reductions over the last three years. Logic would tell you if we're harvesting that much less of the resource, the fishery should be thriving.......it's not according to stock assessments by NMFS.

Chart 2 "Average Recruitment (egg reproduction) for every Metric Ton of Spawning Stock Biomass". For years 1982 thru 1988, there were 2,680 eggs for every metric ton of SSB. For the years 2011 thru 2015, there were 644. That's a 76% decrease in the strength of egg reproduction on a significantly higher biomass. Decline in individual years within those two periods exceeded 80% of reproductive strength and that's through 2015. Since we've continued to harvest primarily female fluke the last three years '16 thru '18, it wouldn't surprise me if that decline in reproduction is closer to 85% - 90% today. That's a consistent trend that's been taking place over the last 35 years, not a recent anomaly as NMFS and ASMFC would want us to believe within the last 5 - 6 years and not a sole is questioning the cause.

Chart 3 "Average Recruitment to Size Limit Trend". Yellow line is size limit legislation by year trend, grey line is recruitment (egg reproduction) over the same period of time. You can plainly see where recruitment was before size limits were introduced and what happened around the year 2000 and beyond as size regulations were increased annually. Recruitment strength of the biomass was destroyed. Even at significantly reduced catch levels illustrated in Chart 1, an almost 85% - 90% drop in egg reproduction based on a significantly larger biomass can't sustain the fishery. Question fisheries management should be asking is why is a biomass today that's almost two and a half times greater than the average biomass back in the nineties producing almost 90% less egg reproduction. Find the answer to that question, implement regulations to resolve it and the fishery will correct itself.

Until regulations are put in place to address the above, absolutely nothing will change other than more of the same, continued size limit increases and daily possessions limit reduction which is the basis of the problem which landed us where we are today.

For anyone from NMFS and ASMFC who might read this post, two things NEED to happen. Stop the Fall commercial harvest of fluke during the primary spawn migration and re-introduce slot limits to take pressure off breeder fluke. If those two changes are adopted, the fishery will gradually improve over time.

As a final note if Charles Witek happens to read this post, the precise definition of your "Steepness Theory" is wrong if a fishery whose SSB actually increased by 600% between 1989 thru 2002 has simultaneously experienced a continuous reduction in egg reproduction for the last 35 years. It defeats the premise of your entire argument and the longer you insist on baseless rhetoric the longer this fishery will continue suffering.

[Detour66]

Bullet Bob... the reason I put ??? next to Bergall's is I didn't realize they are good eating fish. I might have to try them. Thanks!

[dakota560]

The reason I made the above post is because this is what will correct this fishery. Didn't mean to sidetrack the thread of the original poster. Google wholesale prices for summer flounder and some of the prices you'll find will blow away 24.99 a lb. As someone already pointed out, the regulations are based on tonnage so if consumers want to pay $100 a lb for fresh fluke so be it. I can assure you the guys harvesting the fish aren't getting near that price so that tells me the entire supply chain is broken but as mentioned if consumer demand is willing to pay those prices all the power to them. It does give commercial concerns more reason to harvest a resource which has greater returns but this is where quotas can counter-balance that risk and as I mentioned total catch is so far down from 20 - 30 years ago catch isn't the issue the regulatory bodies should be focused on. Unfortunately it seems to be the only thing they have been for the last 20 or so years.

What I would like to see are the same prices paid to commercial concerns for fluke regardless of size, that would all but eliminate culling their catch at sea with larger more valuable females. And for anyone who disagrees that not only happens but happens with regularity let's just agree to disagree. That would address the smaller mesh issue, would address and all but eliminate dead discard of fluke and takes the target off the head of larger more valuable female breeders that exists today. Right now the disparity in wholesale fluke prices for commercial operators based on size incentivizes hygrading which in my opinion is a potentially huge problem effecting the fishery that's virtually impossible to monitor or quantify.

[dakota560]

Bullet Bob... the reason I put ??? next to Bergall's is I didn't realize they are good eating fish. I might have to try them. Thanks!

Detour they're an excellent white meat fish. Issue is catching ones large enough to get a worth while fillet. On offshore trips for sea bass, cod, ling etc. if you see some jumbos caught give them a try, you won't be disappointed. How bad can something be that feeds on crabs, baby lobsters, clams just like sea bass and black fish.

[bulletbob]

Bullet Bob... the reason I put ??? next to Bergall's is I didn't realize they are good eating fish. I might have to try them. Thanks!

They are really good.. Just need good sized ones. lots of guys on bottom fishing boats take them these days, but big fat ones are not easy to find any more.. I have caught huge ones in the shark river and manasqaun river of all places- right near the bridge pilings in September .. that was decades ago, not sure if they are still there these days, but I remember very well that they were big, fat, and full of fight on light "river size" tackle, and wonderful to eat...
I rate them above tog and fluke for eating , but not quite as good as winter flounder or sea bass.... bob