Survey of Summer Flounder Anglers

[RUCoopExt]

Dear Anglers,

We’re conducting an online survey to better understand the fishing practices of anglers targeting summer flounder off New Jersey, including regions fished, fishing tackle used, and practices for handling summer flounder upon capture. This survey is a part of a Rutgers University undergraduate student’s summer research project with the objective of describing anglers’ fishing practices while targeting summer flounder off New Jersey to better understand the impacts of discards and discard mortality and inform fisheries management decision-making. It is estimated that the survey will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. Please click on the following link to complete the survey:

https://rutgers.ca1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_9ZvOoIoegAX0v09

Thank you very much for your interest and willingness to participate in this survey. If you have any questions, then please contact us using the information below.

Thank You,
Max and Doug


Max DiSanto (mfd101@scarletmail.rutgers.edu)
Undergraduate Researcher, Rutgers University

Dr. Douglas Zemeckis (zemeckis@njaes.rutgers.edu | 732-349-1152)
County Agent III (Assistant Professor), Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources, Rutgers University

[bhackemup]

All the surveys so far have done is curtail any possibility of having a productive day on the water. Sea bass is the perfect example. The stock has been restored yet 2 fish is what we get, 1 weakfish, NO blackfish, 3 fluke.

Aquaculture is the the only winner when it comes to fishing regulations and I, personally, am not interested in eating contaminated Talapia which is an invented fish that is fed with contaminated fish food from China and chicken coops over the fish ponds like in Vietnam.

[TerriMc223]

Happy to assist ! I am all for additional research.

[bulletbob]

Happy to assist ! I am all for additional research.

Not me.. rest assured, if ANY state run, or state sponsored, or state assisted "survey" is given information it considers "detrimental to the fishery", it WILL be used against recreational fishermen each and every time.. always has been, always will be.

They never have listened to the voice of reason, and will always react in a negative way against the recreational sector.. They always have done so, and always will do so.. Anyone that shares private fishing information with state or federal "fisheries management" needs their head examined.. Where is the funding for this ""survey"" coming from?? .bob

[bulletbob]

This was copied directly from the Rutgers Budget office web site.. It tells you where the money comes from.... bob




The Rutgers Budget

As New Jersey’s premier state university, Rutgers derives its revenue from a mix of private and public sources. Like other public universities, Rutgers relies on government funding as a vital component of its annual budget. Along with tuition and fees, direct state appropriations and state-paid fringe benefits are the primary means of support for the university’s educational offerings.

[Fishin Polski]

Here's a survey for you. How many owners of fishing type recreational boats think that the regulations, that they keep shoving down our throats, have decreased the value of your boat for resale?? No more surveys just decrease the size limit so we don't have to keep killing the breeding fish!!!!

[Pennsy Guy]

If I remember correctly, same info was wanted last year by R.U..

[june181901]

Hey RU : Nobody catches summer flounder north of Atlantic County!

[Ice Cream Bill]

Pennsy Guy,

The Rutgers survey conducted last year was regarding the Black Sea bass barotrauma and mortality rates, not fluke. I personally volunteered to fish with Dr. Doug and his staff from Rutgers. Very detailed and informative work here.
Doug even came to speak at several saltwater fishing clubs that I belong to.

Those in this forum can choose whether or not to participate. Attacking Rutgers and their professional marine science studies is not fair and accurate.

[RUCoopExt]

Bill: It's great to hear from you. Thanks for your support and encouragement. I hope that you've been getting into some great fishing this summer.

I understand everyone's frustrations with this year's regulations. This survey is part of the summer research project for an undergraduate student from Rutgers. The survey focuses on obtaining additional info about the tackle that anglers use to catch summer flounder (hooks, jigs, line, etc.) and their handling practices when catching them to ultimately try and increase catch-and-release survival of fish that are thrown back. The student and project are funded by the Rutgers Raritan River Consortium (http://raritan.rutgers.edu/rutgers-and-the-raritan/).

Thanks for the feedback and to those who are willing to complete the survey.

Cheers,
Doug

[KMAC]

Dear Anglers,

We’re conducting an online survey to better understand the fishing practices of anglers targeting summer flounder off New Jersey, including regions fished, fishing tackle used, and practices for handling summer flounder upon capture. This survey is a part of a Rutgers University undergraduate student’s summer research project with the objective of describing anglers’ fishing practices while targeting summer flounder off New Jersey to better understand the impacts of discards and discard mortality and inform fisheries management decision-making. It is estimated that the survey will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. Please click on the following link to complete the survey:

https://rutgers.ca1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_9ZvOoIoegAX0v09

Thank you very much for your interest and willingness to participate in this survey. If you have any questions, then please contact us using the information below.

Thank You,
Max and Doug


Max DiSanto (mfd101@scarletmail.rutgers.edu)
Undergraduate Researcher, Rutgers University

Dr. Douglas Zemeckis (zemeckis@njaes.rutgers.edu | 732-349-1152)
County Agent III (Assistant Professor), Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources, Rutgers University

Good catch and release practices are an effective way to preserve fluke stocks. Short to keeper catch ratios can be 10-1 or more with many of those shorts gut hooked. The simple answer is to mandate the use of circle hooks for bait fishing. Survival rates of short fluke released will increase dramatically.

[duranautic al]

Good catch and release practices are an effective way to preserve fluke stocks. Short to keeper catch ratios can be 10-1 or more with many of those shorts gut hooked. The simple answer is to mandate the use of circle hooks for bait fishing. Survival rates of short fluke released will increase dramatically.

the simple answer is NOT to mandate the use of circle hooks...how about lowering the size limit a couple inches?...how many fish have to be handled in order to put a three fish limit in the box?..mandating the use of specific gear(circle hooks) will only lead to more revenue through fines on the average angler...then what?...outlawing the use of Gulp because it works too well??...JUST GIVE US A COUPLE SLOT FISH!!...i know i'd be off the water earlier and not weeding through shorts to try and get that last keeper!

[Short Cast]

I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of our hard earned dollars were given to this "teacher" so he could have a summer job to find out that we go out get, on a boat, chase all over the ocean and bays to catch nada & then go home with nothing?

[dakota560]

We're all pushed to the brink with government restrictions, mandates and bad regulatory decisions and practices. We complain about inaccurate data, for that reason I'm not sure it's fair to place blame on people trying to address that through research. Researchers aren't the ultimate decision makers and how or if their findings are used is outside their control. When government is involved, it's my experience to approach everything with a large degree of skepticism as most on this thread have eluded to because normally when they ask you to look left, you should be looking right.

That said, keep in mind the "Summe Flounder Sex and Length" study conducted in 2016 by Rutgers. They're findings were fact based and spot on regarding the ultimate problem this fishery is experiencing and in fact contradicts the management philosophy NMFS in employing with continued increases in size limits. They can only do the research, NMFS will determine if their findings are ultimately factored into future legislation. In my opinion, that's where MSA and politics in general have lead this fishery entirely down the wrong path.

In the end, Rutgers study might be the pivotal research that finally gives us the slot limit we've been asking for. I say that with guarded optimism but believe we'll see it within the next 2 - 3 years but if we don't it's not the fault of the people who put the time and effort in conducting the research.

[Ice Cream Bill]

Very well stated Tom. Thanks for your input!

[Fishin Polski]

Years ago we used weight and bait with a slider rig and an English fluke hook. Those fish were ALWAYS hooked in the lower jaw, then we all had to change to gamakatsu hooks just in case we hooked a doormat, we wanted no chance of hook failure. On the rock piles the hook would straighten out if hung up and you got most of your rig back!

[Capt. Lou]

There are hvy duty Kale hooks put out by Eagle Claw , I have & use them up,to,size 5/0 very strong hook and they stay sharp ! Like stated very seldom not hooked in jaw !

[KMAC]

the simple answer is NOT to mandate the use of circle hooks...how about lowering the size limit a couple inches?...how many fish have to be handled in order to put a three fish limit in the box?..mandating the use of specific gear(circle hooks) will only lead to more revenue through fines on the average angler...then what?...outlawing the use of Gulp because it works too well??...JUST GIVE US A COUPLE SLOT FISH!!...i know i'd be off the water earlier and not weeding through shorts to try and get that last keeper!

I agree that anglers should be allowed a few slot fish. Anyone who pays $65 for a party boat fare plus incidental expenses is spending over $100 per trip. They should be allowed a few fish. But circle hooks are a win-win situation. Fishing is a blood sport but we can take steps to minimize fish mortality. Hook-up ratios will improve (anyone who fishes circle hooks knows this), and most fish regardless of size will be lip hooked. Circle hooks are the standard for catch-and-release billfish tournaments simply because an effective way to reduce stress on fish that will be returned too the water.

[bulletbob]

Rutgers "research" is funded by the state..
To the Rutgers advocates here, do you REALLY expect a study funded by the state to be used as ammunition AGAINST the state???. honestly?.bob

[dakota560]

Rutgers "research" is funded by the state..
To the Rutgers advocates here, do you REALLY expect a study funded by the state to be used as ammunition AGAINST the state???. honestly?.bob

Therein my position of being "guardedly optimistic". Do I expect a state sponsored study to be used against the state.....no. Do I have more hope it's used by or against NMFS.....yes. Is it a slam dunk, nothing is but that study and the findings it revealed have been used by the organizations fighting "our" fight to cause reform against the federal government regarding this fishery. In my opinion, that makes it relevant and worth the effort.......honestly.

[BigRock44]

just took survey. quick and easy.

[bulletbob]

NMFS IS "the state"...Believe me, they are not the friends of recreational fishermen.


From Wiki..
The NMFS also serves as a federal law enforcement agency, working closely with state enforcement agencies, the United States Coast Guard, and foreign enforcement authorities.

[Chelsea-Sea]

Look what Nmfs has done! Made us happy with 3 fish! They have succeeded and beat us down to except a few fish! Information like this can only help. Maybe like stated it does help and we’re allowed 5 slot fish. We need to stand together and not apart

[AndyS]

WOW, I can't believe the responses I am reading regarding this survey.
These young college folks bust their humps trying to get as much accurate information as they can and all people want to do is push them aside.
Have you ever sat down and actually talked to some of these great people ?
I have been working side by side with Rutgers MCS for over 5 years now monitoring the American Shad on the Raritan river, the amount of data is mind boggling. I do not even go to Rutgers but they embraced me with open arms because I was some one with local knowledge. If I remember correctly this mountain of information is then handed to the NJDEP, there the decisions will be made.
Everyone caved in when the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT wanted a Saltwater Registry but you throw mud at the local scientists..................:confused:
FYI: There are also Black Sea bass surveys going on as well as data from the mud flats in Louisiana and a group just returned from Mongolia with fish data.
In turn these scientists discuss their finding with other scientists world wide in order to draw conclusions.

[Adrenalinerush]

WOW, I can't believe the responses I am reading regarding this survey.
These young college folks bust their humps trying to get as much accurate information as they can and all people want to do is push them aside.
Have you ever sat down and actually talked to some of these great people ?
I have been working side by side with Rutgers MCS for over 5 years now monitoring the American Shad on the Raritan river, the amount of data is mind boggling. I do not even go to Rutgers but they embraced me with open arms because I was some one with local knowledge. If I remember correctly this mountain of information is then handed to the NJDEP, there the decisions will be made.
Everyone caved in when the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT wanted a Saltwater Registry but you throw mud at the local scientists..................:confused:
FYI: There are also Black Sea bass surveys going on as well as data from the mud flats in Louisiana and a group just returned from Mongolia with fish data.
In turn these scientists discuss their finding with other scientists world wide in order to draw conclusions.

Thank you for posting this and having some common sense. Some of these posts remind me the old guy who yells at you for walking on his lawn, geesh!

[bulletbob]

WOW, I can't believe the responses I am reading regarding this survey.
These young college folks bust their humps trying to get as much accurate information as they can and all people want to do is push them aside.
Have you ever sat down and actually talked to some of these great people ?
I have been working side by side with Rutgers MCS for over 5 years now monitoring the American Shad on the Raritan river, the amount of data is mind boggling. I do not even go to Rutgers but they embraced me with open arms because I was some one with local knowledge. If I remember correctly this mountain of information is then handed to the NJDEP, there the decisions will be made.
Everyone caved in when the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT wanted a Saltwater Registry but you throw mud at the local scientists..................:confused:
FYI: There are also Black Sea bass surveys going on as well as data from the mud flats in Louisiana and a group just returned from Mongolia with fish data.
In turn these scientists discuss their finding with other scientists world wide in order to draw conclusions.

So your conclusion is this -
State =Good
Feds= Bad...

Do you really think the state of NJ will act in the best interest of recreational fishermen?.. They won't discuss conclusions with federal agencies that will
"enact appropriate regulation"?... c'mon....

[Adrenalinerush]

So your conclusion is this -
State =Good
Feds= Bad...

Do you really think the state of NJ will act in the best interest of recreational fishermen?.. They won't discuss conclusions with federal agencies that will
"enact appropriate regulation"?... c'mon....

Its an institution of higher learning conducting a survey to garner data.

[bulletbob]

Its an institution of higher learning conducting a survey to garner data.


Understood..

And under NO obligation to share the aforementioned "data" with those that paid for the research ,,

Might I make that assumption? - or no?

[Adrenalinerush]

Understood..

And under NO obligation to share the aforementioned "data" with those that paid for the research ,,

Might I make that assumption? - or no?



If they are gathering data and sharing it that's not a good thing? I have an idea, lets not share the data, yes, that's a better idea. That way when decisions are made you can complain that no one was surveyed or consulted.

So, are you inferring that simply because Rutgers is an institution that is public they must be corrupt? That there is no sense is giving them data from a survey because the data will be twisted and misused. You seem like a fairly intelligent guy but I'm sorry you not making a lot of sense here.

[dakota560]

Bob,

I actually enjoy your posts so don't take it that I'm coming at you. We just have completely contrary opinions about this matter. Please read the Fisherman article per the attached link (Gerry I hope I can post it here, if not delete and I apologize) https://www.thefisherman.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_ID=1552&ParentCat=19 and tell me it's not more likely for some positive change to come out of Rutgers study than not. Again are there guarantees here.....never. But among other things we need information to support our position to create change in this or any fishery and I believe in this particular case and in the long run this study will prove very instrumental in the legislative powers adopting a slot limit. That's my opinion, opposing opinions are probably as steadfast in their beliefs as I am in mine. Nothing wrong with a healthy debate.

Tom

[AndyS]

The Feds scare me more than the State.
Like I said these young scientists talk to others not only around the US but worldwide in order to draw conclusions. Look into the AFS.

[dales529]

Survey DONE. Dont waste an opportunity. There is no conspiracy theory here.
Rutgers has shown nothing but to do some real science based research with SSFFF , Black sea bass, on the water surveys, and now this while ALWAYS seeking input from the recreational community.

This is a GOOD thing. I for one would love to see the results of a mortality survey based on NJ angler input and would hope our for hire fleet would join in the process.
Currently we lose hundreds of thousands of pounds of Fluke quota based on a Federal speculative mortality rate of 10% .

There is always a chance we may hear some data we dont want too ( I for one believe the mortality rate is less than 2% ) but at least its an effort to gather real data rather than the norm.

I cant fish and live thinking science based efforts fall into the conspiracy black hole and paranoia of some of these posts. They willingly gave you their credibility and contact information. Call/ email and ASK until you are satisfied.

Thanks Max / Dr Doug and look forward to hearing the results of your work.

[dakota560]

Bob I actually enjoy your posts so don't take it that I'm coming at you. We just have completely contrary opinions about this matter. Please read the Fisherman article per the attached link (Gerry I hope I can post it here, if not delete and I apologize) https://www.thefisherman.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.display&feature_ID=1552&ParentCat=19 and tell me it's not more likely for some positive change to come out of Rutgers study than not. Again are there guarantees here.....never. But among other things we need information to support our position to create change in this or any fishery and I believe in this particular case and in the long run this study will be instrumental in the legislative powers adopting a slot limit. That's my opinion, opposing opinions are probably as steadfast in their beliefs as I am in mine. Nothing wrong with a healthy debate.

You cannot harvest exclusively female fish in any fishery and expect sustainability. You don't need a degree in Fisheries Management to realize that. And for the advocates of the Steepness Theory, their logic and statements are completely flawed. The decline as people on that side of the argument have stated is not a six-year decline. Summer flounder egg reproduction has steadily and consistently been declining over the last 25 - 30 years to the point it's been obliterated. And the trend line on the decline corresponds with the inverse trend line with size limit increases. The higher the size limit, the lower egg reproduction statistics. It started and accelerated around 2002 as we approached the 17" limit which is the cross over point in Rutgers study that proves almost all fluke beyond that size captured were in fact females. They are absolutely right on point with their findings and conclusions. Just don't see how a study of that nature can be viewed negatively. I share your frustrations in general but believe this is one situation that will ultimately benefit our cause.

[NoLimit]

Dear Anglers,

We’re conducting an online survey to better understand the fishing practices of anglers targeting summer flounder off New Jersey, including regions fished, fishing tackle used, and practices for handling summer flounder upon capture. This survey is a part of a Rutgers University undergraduate student’s summer research project with the objective of describing anglers’ fishing practices while targeting summer flounder off New Jersey to better understand the impacts of discards and discard mortality and inform fisheries management decision-making. It is estimated that the survey will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. Please click on the following link to complete the survey:

https://rutgers.ca1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_9ZvOoIoegAX0v09

Thank you very much for your interest and willingness to participate in this survey. If you have any questions, then please contact us using the information below.

Thank You,
Max and Doug


Max DiSanto (mfd101@scarletmail.rutgers.edu)
Undergraduate Researcher, Rutgers University

Dr. Douglas Zemeckis (zemeckis@njaes.rutgers.edu | 732-349-1152)
County Agent III (Assistant Professor), Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources, Rutgers University


Whats to survey?! Rutgers already knows that size limits means targeting breeders and letting all the males die of old age because they dont get over 18". So stop the BS - no one is playing this game of "Find Reasons to Blame the Recreational Fisherman".

[NoLimit]

WOW, I can't believe the responses I am reading regarding this survey.
These young college folks bust their humps trying to get as much accurate information as they can and all people want to do is push them aside.
Have you ever sat down and actually talked to some of these great people ?
I have been working side by side with Rutgers MCS for over 5 years now monitoring the American Shad on the Raritan river, the amount of data is mind boggling. I do not even go to Rutgers but they embraced me with open arms because I was some one with local knowledge. If I remember correctly this mountain of information is then handed to the NJDEP, there the decisions will be made.
Everyone caved in when the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT wanted a Saltwater Registry but you throw mud at the local scientists..................:confused:
FYI: There are also Black Sea bass surveys going on as well as data from the mud flats in Louisiana and a group just returned from Mongolia with fish data.
In turn these scientists discuss their finding with other scientists world wide in order to draw conclusions.

Sorry - not biting. I remember fishing in the 50's and 60's which was way before fishing laws and "researchers". Year after year, fishermen went home with sacks of fluke, whiting, ling, bluefish, tuna - you felt like a rich man.

Then the commercial fishermen let short term goals ruin the habitat and destroy stocks with by catch mortality. All this investigation of the impact of recreational fishermen is BS

[NoLimit]

The Feds scare me more than the State.
Like I said these young scientists talk to others not only around the US but worldwide in order to draw conclusions. Look into the AFS.

Andy - they have all the data they need. They have targeted breeders for 40 years and now there is no fluke left. It is as simple as that and any research on side issues is fiddling while Rome burns.

[dales529]

Sorry - not biting. I remember fishing in the 50's and 60's which was way before fishing laws and "researchers". Year after year, fishermen went home with sacks of fluke, whiting, ling, bluefish, tuna - you felt like a rich man.

Then the commercial fishermen let short term goals ruin the habitat and destroy stocks with by catch mortality. All this investigation of the impact of recreational fishermen is BS

So you are totally OK with how things are managed now? Bitching about something and actually contributing to change are two different things! Exactly what anti commercial surveys , web sites, groups have you worked with, donated too or helped out. Just asking as maybe I will sign on

[togzilla]

Has anyone ever considered the thought that the whole goal of NMFS is to collapse the fluke industry so they can put undue restrictions on the recreational industry that will ultimately drive out the vast majority of party boat and charter boats? Winter flounder, weakfish, whiting etc.? I remember 30 years ago when organizations like PETA used to protest fishing tournaments and they got very little support during those protests. Since then they have gotten political involved and have been far more successful. Maybe it’s the conspiracy theory in me but Rutgers is an extremely liberal school which is sympathetic to organizations like PETA.

[Honger]

http://i.imgur.com/ZHXbriL.gif

[frugalfisherman]

As far as having to use circle hooks I think the octopus hooks are good enough. I use them and fluke all summer. If I gut hook 1 or 2 fluke a season that would be it. As far as a smaller size limit to save breeders if they went back to 8 fish at 16 inches who's going to throw back a 7 pounder?

[NoLimit]

As far as having to use circle hooks I think the octopus hooks are good enough. I use them and fluke all summer. If I gut hook 1 or 2 fluke a season that would be it. As far as a smaller size limit to save breeders if they went back to 8 fish at 16 inches who's going to throw back a 7 pounder?

The real question is Who is going to catch a limit of 16 or more with a 7 punder in there. It will never happen. They will limit out way before getting the big one. Currently, we are catching 10/1 on keeps and it has been that way for years.

[NoLimit]

So you are totally OK with how things are managed now? Bitching about something and actually contributing to change are two different things! Exactly what anti commercial surveys , web sites, groups have you worked with, donated too or helped out. Just asking as maybe I will sign on

I do a lot more than bitch. I have always known my congressman - one time I chased down Millicent Fenwick with a broken prop and said something needs to be done with dredging double creek channel during the 70's budget crunches. It got done!

[reason162]

Has anyone ever considered the thought that the whole goal of NMFS is to collapse the fluke industry so they can put undue restrictions on the recreational industry that will ultimately drive out the vast majority of party boat and charter boats? Winter flounder, weakfish, whiting etc.? I remember 30 years ago when organizations like PETA used to protest fishing tournaments and they got very little support during those protests. Since then they have gotten political involved and have been far more successful. Maybe it’s the conspiracy theory in me but Rutgers is an extremely liberal school which is sympathetic to organizations like PETA.

Lmao you should pitch this one to alex jones. The responses here are insanely hilarious, emphasis on insane.