When are saltwater anglers going to wake up?

[fishingmortgageman]

I have been seriously fishing for over 20 years after my obligations to my kids were reduced with their aging. In that time I have seen a steady decline in the quality of fishing. Not too long ago the limit on fluke was 8 fish. It was not unusual to catch your limit and often double limits with many short throwbacks. Now it is an occasion for celebration if you are lucky enough to catch your 3 fish. The spring striped bass fishing had been spectacular for many years. The deck shots of anglers with their 3 30-50# breeders used to make me sick. The fall runs used to be spectacular with boats chasing diving birds and taking the stripers on jigs all day. This year there was next to no striper run in the ocean and the bay clamming was non existent. The fall run has been terrible for a few years. 20 years ago there were many day and night bluefishing boats. Everyone was leaving with burlap bags full of bluefish that ended up in dumpsters or gardens. Now the bluefish boats are bragging that the sea bass fishing for their limit of 2 fish is great. Blackfishing is on the same decline as this other fisheries.

I know that the management of our fisheries really sucks. What with the fluke size limit of 18" forcing us to keep only breeding females or allowing commercial fishing to drag our bottoms and then throwing all the by catch back dead. We fishermen can make a difference however. I also do a lot of freshwater fishing. The mentality of most freshwater fishermen is catch and release. Saltwater anglers need to start adopting this same mind set. A 50 pound striped bass is a treasure that should be allowed to live and spawn and be enjoyed by more than one angler. The same for doormat fluke, big blackfish, and the often maligned blue fish. We need to change the mindset to not celebrating what we have killed but what we have caught and released. I know that this will not be an easy or quick process, but we need to start down this road before there are no fish left for our kids to catch.

[Uncle Nicky]

https://i.imgur.com/8Aw2pL3.gif

[AndyS]

I think shorter seasons and lower bag limits for recreational fishermen will definitely help to replenish stocks.

[bulletbob]

First off, going fishing on a lake or steam requires only a fraction of what it costs to fish in salt water, unless you live right on the water or very close..
Most people want a "return" on that investment.

Salt water fish are much more valued as food by most people, fishermen and non fishermen alike.. The same fish that we catch for recreation, are very valuable.. About 2 years ago a guy was bragging about selling his 4 fish limit of blackfish for $ 100... paid for his party boat fare, his gas, and he made a small profit to boot.

Much of the problem is this.. this forum is composed mostly of NY Bight area fishermen.. The NY/NJ/LI metroplex is home to 22,000,000 people... Probably a lot more by now as that number was from the 2010 census..

There is simply too many people catching and eating too many fish...


There is a reason we see reports here from Mass, RI, NH, as well as Delaware and Maryland blackfish trips.. The fish are over pressured these days, and it will only get worse the more people take and eat the fish that are left.. Guys are heading to areas of less pressured fish stocks on an increasing basis...

Realistically, I feel NY/NJ will enact much stricter regulations in the years ahead because the pressure keeps increasing every year.

However, that won't help much as the demand for marine fish flesh will still be there, and as long as there are people lining up to spend $100 for a small plate of raw fish with some ginger/soy sauce on it, there will be those that will exploit the situation..

Bottom line again, too many people wanting to eat too few fish.

Giving most rec species " game only" status would help, but it won't happen.. The government has always considered marine species a food resource, NOT a sporting resource and manages it as such.. that will never change..

Its easier for the govt to collect tax revenue from larger commercial operations than from a million guys in 17 footers, that buy a dozen sandworms and a box of squid here and there.. bob

[penn50w]

I think shorter seasons and lower bag limits for recreational fishermen will definitely help to replenish stocks.

How much LOWER do you want to go :confused: Just stop fishing then!

[torchee]

Commercial fishing reduces stocks

not recreational

[torchee]

oh....

and overdevelopment on all the estuaries, pollution on every river
destruction of environment ..... etc

[june181901]

Fishingmortgageman: Are you serious in proposing that I throw back the few keeper fluke I get each year while the commercial guys are keeping 14 inch fish?
Aren't you putting the shoe on the wrong foot?
Six times fluke fishing last year and I did not catch a single keeper. I've already sacrificed and made an unwitting conservation contribution!

[penn50w]

commercial fishing reduces stocks

not recreational

Bingo

[tuna john]

how about the dead discards on the seabass from the boats that used to catch bluefish. and since they are not around another stock gets pressured. Stinks whole things a mess

[porgylber]

When I’m fishing on a party boat, and I’m playing by the rules, while 6 other people ( probably more) are keeping every sea bass that they pull up....it does bother me. Heck, look at some of the photos posted on here. There’s no way that some of those fish are over 12.5”.
The problem? While fishing is recreational for all, for a good number of people it’s an investment. Between the fare, gas, tolls and lunch, a full day on a party boat is over $100. Telling the average person that they are limited to 2 sea bass is a tough sell.
The answer is not tougher regulation on recreational anglers. Look at the dwindling number of party boats. That would put them out of business.

[bulletbob]

Commercial fishing reduces stocks

not recreational

Yes it does... Tog numbers are a fraction of what they were at one time, and while today they are fished commercially with pots and by a few pin hookers out there, they were historically NOT a commercial species.. Haven't you noticed how blackfishing starts off hot many years, but after a few weeks of the same bottom getting hammered by thousands and thousands of fishermen each week the numbers drop off drastically??.. happens every year.. We do reduce stocks on SOME species.. Not all, maybe not even most, but we do some damage to the stocks.. There are thousands of boats fishing the NY Bight on most weekends, each boat loaded with guys fishing .. The numbers of fish caught would probably stagger us if they could be accurately counted.. Recs will not decimate a species into extinction on a world or even national basis, but its very naive' to think we can't lesson population densities in small local areas.. In our area, the fish are NOT everywhere.. They reside and feed on a seasonal basis in very specific areas.. Sadly those areas are now very common knowledge by a lot of great fishermen with a lot of time and great equipment.. We recs do make a difference in the modern age... bob

[Solemate]

Of course if we take fish out the stocks go down that is simple mathematics. Who kills more? The recs or commercials no one knows this for a fact since there is no fool proof way to find out. Water temps changing, migratory patterns, and available food for different species will dictate the numbers in areas from year to year. There is one thing I agree with that we all should understand. Large breeders being taken any time of the year hurts the replenishment stocks. What to do about that is a good debate but I have always been a proponent of slot fish. Tournaments are for chest pounding. Unless I misunderstand what we do it is still called recreational fishing. Any debate over regulations is meaninless since there is no scientific data to support wasting anyones time on it. Go fishing have fun and bring home a meal if we are lucky enough to catch a few.

[Joey Dah Fish]

I would of love to think catch and releas is the answer. But it’s not. Remember when we had and abundance of weak fish and almost no stripers? Stripers more protected made a major rebound and then ate all the weak fish. Then you lower bag limit s a bass and wonder why black Fishing declined? Then tell us to kill breeder fluke? I attribute major of all specie decline to the species by species regs. As opposed to managing it as an ecosystem . Mismanagement is the cause.

[NoLimit]

Not this c_ap again! Anyone who blames recreational fisherman for reduced stocks has never googled “bycatch mortality”. For those too lazy, here you go http://www.distancelearning.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/bycatch-infographic.jpg

PS We had a great fall and spring striper run - fluke regs are insane because we are forced to throw back males that die of old age at 17” and we have to take breeders

[Capt Stephen]

Also, there are so many seals around that weren’t here before! The Blackfish are are very slow swimmers and are getting eaten by the seals !

[penn50w]

Also, there are so many seals around that weren’t here before! The Blackfish are are very slow swimmers and are getting eaten by the seals !

So, what, kill the seals :rolleyes: - it's the commercial guys - I don't have a problem with them making a living but why can they take 14" Fluke I wouldn't think of trying to filet for 2 oz of meat & I have to take 18" and some of those unless they are Ambrose fluke aren't worth filleting either, for conservation reasons - also, why throw back an under sized "gut hooked" fish when those that have no idea how to remove the hook carefully - just keep as 1 of your limit - it's pretty easy to tell a gut hooked fish when it's guts are hanging out of it's mouth - why discard them for no reason except to be in compliance with a stupid law

[reason162]

So, what, kill the seals :rolleyes: - it's the commercial guys - I don't have a problem with them making a living but why can they take 14" Fluke I wouldn't think of trying to filet for 2 oz of meat & I have to take 18" and some of those unless they are Ambrose fluke aren't worth filleting either, for conservation reasons - also, why throw back an under sized "gut hooked" fish when those that have no idea how to remove the hook carefully - just keep as 1 of your limit - it's pretty easy to tell a gut hooked fish when it's guts are hanging out of it's mouth - why discard them for no reason except to be in compliance with a stupid law

The comms are FORCED to take 14" fluke because prior, they were highgrading for the largest fluke to fill their quota and discarding small dead fluke. For whatever reason, bigger fluke = bigger $/lb. Their 14 inch "limit" is in fact a conservation win.

And your gut-hooked short goes back because there is no way to enforce size limits short of polygraphing everyone.

[torchee]

Yes it does... Tog numbers are a fraction of what they were at one time, and while today they are fished commercially with pots and by a few pin hookers out there, they were historically NOT a commercial species.. Haven't you noticed how blackfishing starts off hot many years, but after a few weeks of the same bottom getting hammered by thousands and thousands of fishermen each week the numbers drop off drastically??.. happens every year.. We do reduce stocks on SOME species.. Not all, maybe not even most, but we do some damage to the stocks.. There are thousands of boats fishing the NY Bight on most weekends, each boat loaded with guys fishing .. The numbers of fish caught would probably stagger us if they could be accurately counted.. Recs will not decimate a species into extinction on a world or even national basis, but its very naive' to think we can't lesson population densities in small local areas.. In our area, the fish are NOT everywhere.. They reside and feed on a seasonal basis in very specific areas.. Sadly those areas are now very common knowledge by a lot of great fishermen with a lot of time and great equipment.. We recs do make a difference in the modern age... bob

There are exceptions. I agree. And blackfish face pressure from rec fisherman.
But it pales in comparison to to floating factory, or dragging the bottom.

[torchee]

Bottom trawling removed ocean floor environments all along our coast


Taking away natural reefs and leaving deserts

I was doing some reading on it

[penn50w]

The comms are FORCED to take 14" fluke because prior, they were highgrading for the largest fluke to fill their quota and discarding small dead fluke. For whatever reason, bigger fluke = bigger $/lb. Their 14 inch "limit" is in fact a conservation win.

And your gut-hooked short goes back because there is no way to enforce size limits short of polygraphing everyone.

if it's "gut" hooked, count it as part of your limit instead of discarding - it's dead anyway

[reason162]

if it's "gut" hooked, count it as part of your limit instead of discarding - it's dead anyway

Sure, but how would they enforce that?

[penn50w]

Sure, but how would they enforce that?

same way you enforce the regs now - how many times have you've been checked this year - we're zero this year and last year but I still go by the limit of 3

[joshpio]

How's that beach replenishment helping our fishery? There are less people fishing now then a decade ago. Kids don't fish anymore and everyone is selling their boats. Find it hard to believe we r the problem. Not everyone is wealthy with tons of time of to fish whenever they want. U tell the working class man to release the few fish he catches a season come on now.

[SaltLife1980]

Slaying and Filleting! :D:eek:

[fishingmortgageman]

Fishingmortgageman: Are you serious in proposing that I throw back the few keeper fluke I get each year while the commercial guys are keeping 14 inch fish?
Aren't you putting the shoe on the wrong foot?
Six times fluke fishing last year and I did not catch a single keeper. I've already sacrificed and made an unwitting conservation contribution!

I hear what you are saying. Do you want to continue fishing and not catch a single keeper? We have to start somewhere if we want to make things better. The commercial fishing definitely needs to be changed. I don't believe that it was commercial fishing that has depleted our stocks of bluefish. The amount of recreational fishing that is done in our are can definitely make an impact.

[fishingmortgageman]

When I’m fishing on a party boat, and I’m playing by the rules, while 6 other people ( probably more) are keeping every sea bass that they pull up....it does bother me. Heck, look at some of the photos posted on here. There’s no way that some of those fish are over 12.5”.
The problem? While fishing is recreational for all, for a good number of people it’s an investment. Between the fare, gas, tolls and lunch, a full day on a party boat is over $100. Telling the average person that they are limited to 2 sea bass is a tough sell.
The answer is not tougher regulation on recreational anglers. Look at the dwindling number of party boats. That would put them out of business.

You are talking about a return on investment. I go fishing for the entire experience. A day on the water, joking around with like minded people, hopefully the fun of pulling a fish in. It is hard to justify the expense if you try to analyze what the cost per pound of kept fish is compared to what it would cost at the store. Can't we just go out and enjoy the day?

[fishingmortgageman]

Yes it does... Tog numbers are a fraction of what they were at one time, and while today they are fished commercially with pots and by a few pin hookers out there, they were historically NOT a commercial species.. Haven't you noticed how blackfishing starts off hot many years, but after a few weeks of the same bottom getting hammered by thousands and thousands of fishermen each week the numbers drop off drastically??.. happens every year.. We do reduce stocks on SOME species.. Not all, maybe not even most, but we do some damage to the stocks.. There are thousands of boats fishing the NY Bight on most weekends, each boat loaded with guys fishing .. The numbers of fish caught would probably stagger us if they could be accurately counted.. Recs will not decimate a species into extinction on a world or even national basis, but its very naive' to think we can't lesson population densities in small local areas.. In our area, the fish are NOT everywhere.. They reside and feed on a seasonal basis in very specific areas.. Sadly those areas are now very common knowledge by a lot of great fishermen with a lot of time and great equipment.. We recs do make a difference in the modern age... bob

I couldn't agree more. I do a lot of blackfishing and I have seen the quality of it plummet in just a few years. There hundreds of boats beating on it. We can make a difference.

[fishingmortgageman]

I would of love to think catch and releas is the answer. But it’s not. Remember when we had and abundance of weak fish and almost no stripers? Stripers more protected made a major rebound and then ate all the weak fish. Then you lower bag limit s a bass and wonder why black Fishing declined? Then tell us to kill breeder fluke? I attribute major of all specie decline to the species by species regs. As opposed to managing it as an ecosystem . Mismanagement is the cause.

I agree that mismanagement is the major element combined with the way that we allow our commercial fishermen to fish. We have to start somewhere to try to turn this around. If we wait for better management we will be waiting for a very long time.

[fishingmortgageman]

Bottom trawling removed ocean floor environments all along our coast


Taking away natural reefs and leaving deserts

I was doing some reading on it

I agree. I believe in California they do not allow trawling. It is not a sustainable way to keep fishing.

[Wilson]

.......

[porgylber]

You are talking about a return on investment. I go fishing for the entire experience. A day on the water, joking around with like minded people, hopefully the fun of pulling a fish in. It is hard to justify the expense if you try to analyze what the cost per pound of kept fish is compared to what it would cost at the store. Can't we just go out and enjoy the day?

You and I are fortunate. We do go out first and foremost to enjoy the day. Bringing home fish for me is important, but not the driving factor in fishing.
I’m talking about the guy that enjoys fishing, but actually bringing home fish is critical. I’d estimate that population to be 40-60% of the party boat fares. They are keeping the short sea bass, or short fluke.

[hammer4reel]

You guys posting not many guys fish anymore and everyone is selling their boats must not fish .

In the raritan bay down through to Barney there are 50 times more boats than just ten years ago.
.
Even after the marinas close in november you can still walk across boats for miles on a nice day.

The pressure we put on inshore fish is substantial.
..
I remember when about 7/10 boats fished the rattle snake fluking .
Now there are over 100

.

[Uncle Nicky]

Honestly, I can't believe we are all even having this conversation.

Reacreational fishing makes a small dent in the overall population.

Are some spots overfished? Sure, but it's been that way for 50 years that I remember. Captains are going to take you to known spots every time, they are playing the odds, rather than going on a scouting expedition with paying customers.

LESS guys are keeping bluefish now than in years past and there are now limits, wasn't that way years ago. There are other factors in play, I don't know the scientific details, but highly doubt it's recreational fishermen keeping bluefish that's causing their decline.

Things are constantly in flux in the ocean. Years ago Cape May & Fortescue was where all the Philly & South Jersey guys went, very few party boats & charters left there now. Used to be a lot of weakfish & mackerel, those are scarce. On the other hand, there were a lot less blackfish & stripers years ago, now they are prevalent. Tuna fishing used to be red hot at the Outer Banks, now it's less than mediocre. Point is things are always changing, we just have to roll with the punches & adapt.

And yes, we DEFINITELY need more sensible regulations on fluke and especially commercial fishing.

[bulletbob]

". On the other hand, there were a lot less blackfish & stripers years ago, now they are prevalent."

You are correct on the stripers, but are wildly out of kilter about blackfish..
There was probably 10 times the amount of tog years ago than there are today... No comparison.. I would NOT say blackfish are prevalent today, I would say they are in a population decline.. bob

[courbeco]

As I recall, years ago the blackfish were only a "Fill in" to the whiting and ling fishery. They really weren't targeted as much as they are nowadays.

[Uncle Nicky]

". On the other hand, there were a lot less blackfish & stripers years ago, now they are prevalent."

You are correct on the stripers, but are wildly out of kilter about blackfish..
There was probably 10 times the amount of tog years ago than there are today... No comparison.. I would NOT say blackfish are prevalent today, I would say they are in a population decline.. bob

You may be right, but nobody fished for them that I remember years ago, at least out of Fortescue or Cape May or Indian River. I sure don't remember any incidental catches. I do remember a guy diving into the water with a wetsuit about 30 years ago with a speargun (near Brielle), he came back with a blackfish, it was the first time we'd ever seen one. I mostly fish on boats in Belmar/Highlands these days, there seems to be plenty to me, I caught a few nice ones in June during sea bass season, but I guess it is all relative.:confused::confused::confused:

[AndyS]

I read the saltwater reports and it's all about "keepers" and "limits". If you went saltwater fishing and did not get "keepers" or "limits" your whole trip was a bust.
I think I have good reason to chime on this thread as I was one of many who had the pleasure of watching full burlap sacks of ling and whiting rip from the rail due to being over loaded with fish. My father told me as a child that I would see many changes in fishing in my lifetime and was he right !
The Boston Mackerel were knee deep on the decks, people dragged dead smelt and squid and caught all the fluke they wanted, you had to stop fishing for bluefish because your cooler was full, all this has changed. Huge whiting and ling from the Mud Hole all but gone.
BUT there must be quit a lot of fish around because I see no shortage of "tournaments". I see fluke tournaments, striped bass tournaments, tuna and marlin tournaments, so that right there indicates there are more than ample supplies of fish if people can put a bounty on the fishes heads.

[Dirty Seagull]

An individual has every right to keep any legal fish .After spending hundreds on on tackle and boats a person should buy fish to eat !!! The commercial fisherman are so efficient now , the fish do not have a chance. The recreational fisherman will never hurt the fishery .

[reason162]

Comms are a huge problem, sure, but let's not shift the blame entirely off our backs. And again, the 14" comm fluke limit is a WIN for conservation, they were FORCED to keep 14" fluke kicking and screaming.

Someone put a photo of a bucket of blowfish on fb recently, rejoicing at their "comeback." Gunnysacks will be next, and when every last blowfish is gone (again) people here will point their fingers at comms.

NJ is esp good at killing striped bass. What other state allows 2 stripers per day + bonus tags?? Recs (including charter/party boats, which imo should be their own category) kill FAR more stripers up and down the coast than the commercial harvest.

[reely]

http://www.seaaroundus.org/recreational-fishing-accounts-for-half-of-all-fish-caught-in-the-bahamas/

[Reel Class]

Those of you that are saying blackfish are in decline should go out in September/October and fish any of the pieces you would when it's "open" and see the dozens upon dozens of tog readily crushing the crabs you send down.
Even look at the inshore spots, the jetties, the bridges, and the other obvious spots - there are tons of tog out there, more now then there were 25 years ago.

Keeper Fluke are just tougher to catch, as any of us can drift along the beach all day and catch 14" fish - you simply can't keep them anymore so you have to go where the bigger fish are, and where they always have been! When the size limit was 14 or 15" you'd see boats drifting right in the shallows up and down our beaches loading up. Those fish are still there, but nobody wants to fish for them!!!

And seabass? LOL. Seabass are ranging now from Florida to Maine, and in the gulf of Mexico! They weren't there (at least to my knowledge!) 10 years ago! But the stock is in bad shape right?

Yeah release the fish you are rightfully allowed to keep, and you're joining the crowd that's taking away our rights to fish legally!

[dakota560]

Comms are a huge problem, sure, but let's not shift the blame entirely off our backs. And again, the 14" comm fluke limit is a WIN for conservation, they were FORCED to keep 14" fluke kicking and screaming.

Someone put a photo of a bucket of blowfish on fb recently, rejoicing at their "comeback." Gunnysacks will be next, and when every last blowfish is gone (again) people here will point their fingers at comms.

NJ is esp good at killing striped bass. What other state allows 2 stripers per day + bonus tags?? Recs (including charter/party boats, which imo should be their own category) kill FAR more stripers up and down the coast than the commercial harvest.

Fish that have disappeared or been decimated in NJ and why:

Whiting - small mesh commercial overfishing in mudhole
Ling - small mesh commercial overfishing in mudhole
Cod - Government horse traded with Russia and fishery never rebounded
Mackerel - Government horse traded with Russia and fishery never rebounded
Sea Bass (until recently) - commercial overharvest
Flounder - commercial overharvest
Fluke - NMFS regs and commercial overharvest of breeders. Reason I too initially thought 14" was a God send for commercials. It's everything other, ended up causing more dead disgard with commercials retaining the larger females due to price differential and the smaller 14" fish being tossed overboard dead. Anyone see them floating around offshore like we saw ling and whiting in the mudhole. No because unlike ling and whiting, summer flounder sink. Visit the docks when the commercials off load if you want the facts.
Weakfish - commercials in Delaware destroyed the tiderunners, almost all females as did the purse seiners while they migrated south along the coast in the Fall.
Blackfish - Roller Ball Trawlers and pots hurt that fishery as did the Asian market for live blackfish. Again pots all over during the spring spawn, worst decision fisheries management could make same as with summer flounder.
Sharks - Commericlas killed it with finning
Tuna - Same happening with amount of large fish being retained, in particular bluefins. Look where the size and quantities have gone over the last 30 years. Will happen with yellowfin and bigeye in future years.....guaranteed.
Blowfish - complete anomaly. They were everywhere one year in the 70's and the next year completely disappeared. Not sure what happened but leave them on the side for now. Wouldn't surprise me however if they were wiped out by purse seiners one fall while migrating.
Stripers - Commercial netting up and down the coast, in particular in North Carolina destroyed the stock in the late 70's / early 80's as did pesticide run off in Chesapeake. Striper collapse in the 70's and 80's had nothing to do with recreational fishing pressure. Today we keep taking hero shots of trophy bass lying on the dock and history will repeat itself. Keep 2 - 3 per charter, do we really need to mortgage the future of the fishery for a few hero shots for prosperity sake back at the dock.

Now name one fishery that was destroyed by recreational.....just one.

Do recreationals contribute, of course. Will they destroy a fishery, absolutely not. Consider weather days you can't sail and the number of days you come home with an empty cooler or conditions don't favor the angler. Commercials destroy habitat every trip, they kill by catch every trip, they destroy complete ecosystems, and in the case of fluke they completely disrupt the Fall spawn which I'm convinced is singularly the biggest problem facing the fishery. Until the industries dependant on recreational fishing unite and combat the commercial lobbyists pouring money into the politicians pockets who make the regulations, nothing will change. Every fishery is being taken away from the recreational fishing community and one by one being destroyed in the process by commercial and political greed and overharvest. Anyone who thinks otheriwse has their head in the sand. Every fishery needs to protect he spawning biomass as many freshwater species are. More so for inshore species which are targeted year round. Cant keep pounding the resource and killing the breeders and expect to have a sustainable fishery. Until the regulations accept that philosophy and incorporate it into future management plans, we'll continue having the same discussions.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Comms are a huge problem, sure, but let's not shift the blame entirely off our backs. And again, the 14" comm fluke limit is a WIN for conservation, they were FORCED to keep 14" fluke kicking and screaming.

Someone put a photo of a bucket of blowfish on fb recently, rejoicing at their "comeback." Gunnysacks will be next, and when every last blowfish is gone (again) people here will point their fingers at comms.

NJ is esp good at killing striped bass. What other state allows 2 stripers per day + bonus tags?? Recs (including charter/party boats, which imo should be their own category) kill FAR more stripers up and down the coast than the commercial harvest.

Not so fast Reason. The reason we here in NJ have the recreational regs we do for Stripers is because we don't allow commercial fishing for them like in NY so recreationals get that allocation.

The Striped Bass Bonus Program

The 2018 Striped Bass Bonus Program (SBBP) is currently closed and will reopen September 1, 2018.
Permits issued for 2017 are not valid in 2018.
Applications for the 2018 SBBP are now available. 2018 SBBP permits are not valid until September 1, 2018. All 2017 permit holders must reapply to receive a 2018 permit. The number of permits issued will be limited at the Division's discretion based on harvest reports and other factors to ensure the 2018 quota is not exceeded.

The deadline for submitting all applications is October 31, 2018 and applications postmarked after the deadline will not be processed. 2018 SBBP permits are not valid until September 1, 2018.

Updated and new information about the SBBP is posted on this webpage and sent to Marine Fisheries e-mail list subscribers and media outlets when available.

Reporting of all harvested bonus fish is mandatory.

Effective September 1, 2018, the SBBP regulations are as follows:

One fish per permit 24" to less than 28"
September 1, 2018 - December 31, 2018
Please note that the order of fish harvested does not matter.
Bonus harvest reporting is mandatory and must be reported within 24 hours of harvest via online or by calling 609-748-2074.

New Jersey recreational striped bass regulations in all state waters are as follows:

One fish 28" to less than 43" AND one fish 43" or greater
PROGRAM BACKGROUND

New Jersey is allocated a commercial harvest quota of striped bass under the Striped Bass Interstate Fisheries Management Plan as administered by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC). Since New Jersey does not allow netting or sale of striped bass, this quota was transferred to the recreational fishing sector resulting in the origin of the SBBP.

The current allocation from ASMFC is 215,912 pounds to be distributed between individual anglers and party/charter boats. Should NJ overshoot this quota in 2018, any overage would be subtracted from the 2019 quota. Although this program does allow for the harvest of an additional striped bass for New Jersey anglers, the Division encourages catch and release whenever possible so this species can prosper for future generations.

The Division of Fish and Wildlife initiated the program in 1990 to allow the harvest of an additional striped bass for New Jersey recreational anglers. Although the program has been modified throughout the years, the main goal of the SBBP is to allow anglers to participate in the management process while enjoying their favorite recreational pastime. It is a popular program and provides valuable data for assessing stock status and fishing trends, making it an integral part of New Jersey's striped bass management.

[fishingmortgageman]

Those of you that are saying blackfish are in decline should go out in September/October and fish any of the pieces you would when it's "open" and see the dozens upon dozens of tog readily crushing the crabs you send down.
Even look at the inshore spots, the jetties, the bridges, and the other obvious spots - there are tons of tog out there, more now then there were 25 years ago.

Keeper Fluke are just tougher to catch, as any of us can drift along the beach all day and catch 14" fish - you simply can't keep them anymore so you have to go where the bigger fish are, and where they always have been! When the size limit was 14 or 15" you'd see boats drifting right in the shallows up and down our beaches loading up. Those fish are still there, but nobody wants to fish for them!!!

And seabass? LOL. Seabass are ranging now from Florida to Maine, and in the gulf of Mexico! They weren't there (at least to my knowledge!) 10 years ago! But the stock is in bad shape right?

Yeah release the fish you are rightfully allowed to keep, and you're joining the crowd that's taking away our rights to fish legally!

I often go catch and release blackfishing in September and October and the numbers have been way down the last two years. I don't know of anyone that has had consistently good fishing recently.

[Skolmann]

You are talking about a return on investment. I go fishing for the entire experience. A day on the water, joking around with like minded people, hopefully the fun of pulling a fish in. It is hard to justify the expense if you try to analyze what the cost per pound of kept fish is compared to what it would cost at the store. Can't we just go out and enjoy the day?

Winner winner, chicken dinner

I am of the same mind set.

[fishingmortgageman]

Fish that have disappeared or been decimated in NJ and why:

Whiting - small mesh commercial overfishing in mudhole
Ling - small mesh commercial overfishing in mudhole
Cod - Government horse traded with Russia and fishery never rebounded
Mackerel - Government horse traded with Russia and fishery never rebounded
Sea Bass (until recently) - commercial overharvest
Flounder - commercial overharvest
Fluke - NMFS regs and commercial overharvest of breeders. Reason I too initially thought 14" was a God send for commercials. It's everything other, ended up causing more dead disgard with commercials retaining the larger females due to price differential and the smaller 14" fish being tossed overboard dead. Anyone see them floating around offshore like we saw ling and whiting in the mudhole. No because unlike ling and whiting, summer flounder sink. Visit the docks when the commercials off load if you want the facts.
Weakfish - commercials in Delaware destroyed the tiderunners, almost all females as did the purse seiners while they migrated south along the coast in the Fall.
Blackfish - Roller Ball Trawlers and pots hurt that fishery as did the Asian market for live blackfish. Again pots all over during the spring spawn, worst decision fisheries management could make same as with summer flounder.
Sharks - Commericlas killed it with finning
Tuna - Same happening with amount of large fish being retained, in particular bluefins. Look at where the sizes have gone over the last 30 years. Will happen with yellowfin and bigeye in future years.....guaranteed.
Blowfish - complete anomaly. They were everywhere one year in the 70's and the next year completely disappeared. Not sure what happened but leave them on the side for now. Wouldn't surprise me however if they were wiped out by purse seiners one fall while migrating.
Stripers - Commercial netting up and down the coast, in particular in North Carolina destroyed the stock in the late 70's / early 80's as did pesticide run off in Chesapeake. Striper collapse had nothing to do with recreational fishing pressure. Today we keep taking hero shots of trophy bass lying on the dock and history will repeat itself. Keep 2 - 3 per charter, do we really need to mortgage the future of the fishery for a few hero shots for prosperity sake back at the dock.

Now name one fishery that was destroyed by recreational.....just one.

Do recreationals contribute, of course. Will they destroy a fishery, absolutely not. Consider weather days you can't sail and the number of days you come home with an empty cooler or conditions don't favor the angler. Commercials destroy habitat every trip, they kill by catch every trip, they destroy complete ecosystems, and in the case of fluke they completely disrupt the Fall spawn which I'm convinced is singularly the biggest problem facing the fishery. Until the industries dependant on recreational fishing unite and combat the commercial lobbyists pouring money into the politicians bank accounts who make the regulations, nothing will change. Every fishery is being taken away from the recreational fishing community and one by one being destroyed in the process by commercial and political greed and overharvest. Anyone who thinks otheriwse has their head in the sand. Every fishery needs to protect he spawning biomass as many freshwater species are. More so for inshore species which are targeted year round. Cant keep pounding the resource and killing the breeders and expect to have a sustainable fishery. Until the regulations accept that philosophy and incorporate it into future management plans, we'll continue having the same discussions.

I totally agree with you that the main problem is the commercial fishing and the way that it is done. Can't we show that we care about the fisheries by releasing more fish. It might be that people will start to notice and maybe this will bring more pressure to bear on how the commercial fishing is regulated. If we start to police ourselves and become more like stewards of the sea we will be leading by example.

I don't know what has happened with the bluefish stocks, but I don't believe that they were commercially over harvested.

[hammer4reel]

Not so fast Reason. The reason we here in NJ have the recreational regs we do for Stripers is because we don't allow commercial fishing for them like in NY so recreationals get that allocation.

The Striped Bass Bonus Program

The 2018 Striped Bass Bonus Program (SBBP) is currently closed and will reopen September 1, 2018.
Permits issued for 2017 are not valid in 2018.
Applications for the 2018 SBBP are now available. 2018 SBBP permits are not valid until September 1, 2018. All 2017 permit holders must reapply to receive a 2018 permit. The number of permits issued will be limited at the Division's discretion based on harvest reports and other factors to ensure the 2018 quota is not exceeded.

The deadline for submitting all applications is October 31, 2018 and applications postmarked after the deadline will not be processed. 2018 SBBP permits are not valid until September 1, 2018.

Updated and new information about the SBBP is posted on this webpage and sent to Marine Fisheries e-mail list subscribers and media outlets when available.

Reporting of all harvested bonus fish is mandatory.

Effective September 1, 2018, the SBBP regulations are as follows:

One fish per permit 24" to less than 28"
September 1, 2018 - December 31, 2018
Please note that the order of fish harvested does not matter.
Bonus harvest reporting is mandatory and must be reported within 24 hours of harvest via online or by calling 609-748-2074.

New Jersey recreational striped bass regulations in all state waters are as follows:

One fish 28" to less than 43" AND one fish 43" or greater
PROGRAM BACKGROUND

New Jersey is allocated a commercial harvest quota of striped bass under the Striped Bass Interstate Fisheries Management Plan as administered by the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC). Since New Jersey does not allow netting or sale of striped bass, this quota was transferred to the recreational fishing sector resulting in the origin of the SBBP.

The current allocation from ASMFC is 215,912 pounds to be distributed between individual anglers and party/charter boats. Should NJ overshoot this quota in 2018, any overage would be subtracted from the 2019 quota. Although this program does allow for the harvest of an additional striped bass for New Jersey anglers, the Division encourages catch and release whenever possible so this species can prosper for future generations.

The Division of Fish and Wildlife initiated the program in 1990 to allow the harvest of an additional striped bass for New Jersey recreational anglers. Although the program has been modified throughout the years, the main goal of the SBBP is to allow anglers to participate in the management process while enjoying their favorite recreational pastime. It is a popular program and provides valuable data for assessing stock status and fishing trends, making it an integral part of New Jersey's striped bass management.

do just a LITTLE math . 216K pounds is not ALOT of bass, even using a super low weight of 20# average that's only approx. 10K bass to meet the quota., and there are thousands of bass exceeding 30 # taken yearly.
The reason we currently have the double size limit is because many felt there was too many breeder fish being slaughtered and complained to the state to also change the format of the bonus tag, which previously had guys taking 40 # bass for 2 bucks, those fish are worth a lot more to the fishery than 2 bucks

half million salt water fisherman in NJ means if just 2% catch and keep one 20# bass we hit the quota.
so you so sure we don't over fish striped bass ???????????????????????????????

[damnyankee]

I totally agree with you that the main problem is the commercial fishing and the way that it is done. Can't we show that we care about the fisheries by releasing more fish. It might be that people will start to notice and maybe this will bring more pressure to bear on how the commercial fishing is regulated. If we start to police ourselves and become more like stewards of the sea we will be leading by example.

I don't know what has happened with the bluefish stocks, but I don't believe that they were commercially over harvested.

That's a great sentiment, but who would be following the example we would set? The commercial lobby would use it as a talking point, saying the recreational guys don't keep as much, so we want bigger quotas. The recreational fisherman is the enemy of the commercial fisherman, don't think that we are on the same team.

[dales529]

This is a great thread and a negative thread.
Eric I agree with what I believe (and correct me if I am wrong) that your goal was to get recreational fishermen to start adopting more of a Catch and Release philosophy than currently in your mind exists. I agree if that was the intent as there is no harm in that to anyone.

It would have been nice if responses would have just said yes we all can be better stewards of the sea instead of the blame game.
All that means is take what you need when you need and dont if you dont need.
"Limit the kill dont Kill the limit"
Granted Charter/ Party Boats NEED to make a living so again what I just said does NOT apply to ALL


What this thread however does prove is the disparity of OPINION within all humans and especially us saltwater fishermen. We complain all the time about "faulty data" and yet here it is in this thread. We feed NOAA exactly what they need to keep up the false data because we provide it.

Some believe we put too much pressure on individual species and there are hundreds of boats everyday "on nice days" etc and others believe that the pressure is less than ever after "Sandy".


Some state the fish are everywhere and some say its in decline. I dont profess to have the answers and to be honest dont have the facts to back things up either but there is a reason party boats, charter boats, bait and tackle shops are in decline and the logical reason is less recreational fishing pressure not more.

Somewhere there are reasons and I wont use the "C change" word as that can be offensive to some but fish are migrating to NEW areas all the time.

Fish are not found as often as "prospecting" new spots isnt happening as it once did. The top producers get the fish because they go where the fish are.

Personally I believe the fisheries management by species (as Joey Da Fish stated) vs the entire ecosystem is the wrong approach. They regulate and "save" LOL one species without regard of the impact on another species and then try to adjust seasons / bag limits to compensate.

Commercials have their responsibility in this and always have. I agree with Reason 162 on the 14" fluke as it just makes sense. It does NOT make sense we dont have a SLOT fish however. Again on FLUKE.

Thanks Eric for the post but recreational fishermen need to start researching and agreeing on a few facts before we go anywhere.

[fishingmortgageman]

This is a great thread and a negative thread.
Eric I agree with what I believe (and correct me if I am wrong) that your goal was to get recreational fishermen to start adopting more of a Catch and Release philosophy than currently in your mind exists. I agree if that was the intent as there is no harm in that to anyone.

It would have been nice if responses would have just said yes we all can be better stewards of the sea instead of the blame game.
All that means is take what you need when you need and dont if you dont need.
"Limit the kill dont Kill the limit"
Granted Charter/ Party Boats NEED to make a living so again what I just said does NOT apply to ALL


What this thread however does prove is the disparity of OPINION within all humans and especially us saltwater fishermen. We complain all the time about "faulty data" and yet here it is in this thread. We feed NOAA exactly what they need to keep up the false data because we provide it.

Some believe we put too much pressure on individual species and there are hundreds of boats everyday "on nice days" etc and others believe that the pressure is less than ever after "Sandy".


Some state the fish are everywhere and some say its in decline. I dont profess to have the answers and to be honest dont have the facts to back things up either but there is a reason party boats, charter boats, bait and tackle shops are in decline and the logical reason is less recreational fishing pressure not more.

Somewhere there are reasons and I wont use the "C change" word as that can be offensive to some but fish are migrating to NEW areas all the time.

Fish are not found as often as "prospecting" new spots isnt happening as it once did. The top producers get the fish because they go where the fish are.

Personally I believe the fisheries management by species (as Joey Da Fish stated) vs the entire ecosystem is the wrong approach. They regulate and "save" LOL one species without regard of the impact on another species and then try to adjust seasons / bag limits to compensate.

Commercials have their responsibility in this and always have. I agree with Reason 162 on the 14" fluke as it just makes sense. It does NOT make sense we dont have a SLOT fish however. Again on FLUKE.

Thanks Eric for the post but recreational fishermen need to start researching and agreeing on a few facts before we go anywhere.

The goal Dale was to try to promote more of the catch and release philosophy, especially with the bigger fish. I understand the anglers want to keep some of what they catch, but that does not have to be 50 porgies or 10 bluefish. Keep enough for a nice meal of fresh fish.

[bhackemup]

Bottom trawling removed ocean floor environments all along our coast


Taking away natural reefs and leaving deserts

I was doing some reading on it

Beach replenishment does more harm to the bottom. Draggers have been over spots like Manasquan Ridge, for decades and the fish keep coming back for them to drag year after year. When the Army Corp of Engineers takes the gravel from the Manasquan Ridge to put on the beach, we will not have to worry about the draggers anymore. It can then be removed on your chart plotter as a way point.

[bhackemup]

I agree. I believe in California they do not allow trawling. It is not a sustainable way to keep fishing.

I am not sure you want to include California in any discussion to prove a point after all, plastic straws are their main concern.:rolleyes:

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

I am not sure you want to include California in any discussion to prove a point after all, plastic straws are their main concern.:rolleyes:

Its also known to cause cancer just like every warning label you read lmao.

Bottom line rod and reel will NEVER harm an ocean fishery.

[dakota560]

Its also known to cause cancer just like every warning label you read lmao.

Bottom line rod and reel will NEVER harm an ocean fishery.

Amen to that. It hasn't in my lifetime and for a variety of reasons don't believe it ever will. Salt water fisheries need to be managed in my opinion, how the governing bodies are going about it is what's perplexing. You have to protect the spawn for every fishery, there's no stocking programs in the ocean. You can't legislate regulations that target almost exclusively female breeders, most inept management philosophy ever. Completely opposite of what needs to be done, data supports that fact and is being completely ignored. Ocean resources have unfortunately become a bargaining chip for politicians to make deals and push their own personal agendas. Never thought I'd see the day when someone bragged about limiting out when it meant catching 3 fish. It's unconscienable what's happened to the summer flounder fishery.

[DoubleBarrel]

I don't think its about more restrictive limits - it's about the boats and fisherman who abuse the resource year after year. And who will continue to abuse the resource whether bag limits are lower or higher. I see boats in my marina along with the same drunken crews of fisherman, decimate fish stocks. These boats fish 3-4 days/week, and every single day would come in with 5-8 stripers - that's 15-32 breeding size bass every week during peak spring and fall runs...every year for 3 months out of the year. You want to freeze 200lbs of striped bass year after year are you kidding me? And these people couldn't have a care in the world. Same thing goes for fluke and bluefish - disappearing because irresponsible people don't give a sh*t. I see 6 pack captains come in with undersized fish ALL THE TIME - soon they'll be out of business.

And let's be clear - I'm not a tree hugger. I enjoy harvesting my catch - but I do it responsibly. I take one striped bass per year to eat. One shark per year or every other year. Doesn't mean you can't catch - just release. Throw back the doormat fluke for a change. I'm over suffering because idiot recreational fisherman damage a fishery out of ambivalence.

And its true commercial fishing does huge amounts of damage for meager returns to the economy; their resource damage hurts way more than the tiny sums they contribute back into local business. But recreational fisherman need to stop pointing the finger and look themselves in the mirror.

[fish4fun]

Global warming is the reason. Proven fact...our oceans are warmer. The fluke coming out of Barnegat Bay are mostly shorts and very warm. The doormats need colder water. That's why the ocean is out producing the inside bay boats. The half day boat has no future. Not enough time to make it to deep water. During the week no one is railed like years back and that includes your 3/4 day boats. I hate to say this but if the attendance keeps declining you probably won't see all the same party boats docked at the AH Marina next year. It all seems to be slipping away.

[fishingmortgageman]

I don't think its about more restrictive limits - it's about the boats and fisherman who abuse the resource year after year. And who will continue to abuse the resource whether bag limits are lower or higher. I see boats in my marina along with the same drunken crews of fisherman, decimate fish stocks. These boats fish 3-4 days/week, and every single day would come in with 5-8 stripers - that's 15-32 breeding size bass every week during peak spring and fall runs...every year for 3 months out of the year. You want to freeze 200lbs of striped bass year after year are you kidding me? And these people couldn't have a care in the world. Same thing goes for fluke and bluefish - disappearing because irresponsible people don't give a sh*t. I see 6 pack captains come in with undersized fish ALL THE TIME - soon they'll be out of business.

And let's be clear - I'm not a tree hugger. I enjoy harvesting my catch - but I do it responsibly. I take one striped bass per year to eat. One shark per year or every other year. Doesn't mean you can't catch - just release. Throw back the doormat fluke for a change. I'm over suffering because idiot recreational fisherman damage a fishery out of ambivalence.

And its true commercial fishing does huge amounts of damage for meager returns to the economy; their resource damage hurts way more than the tiny sums they contribute back into local business. But recreational fisherman need to stop pointing the finger and look themselves in the mirror.

Well said. This is point that I was trying to make

[Capt. Debbie]

It's a NY concern too. Telling people how to live is a cottage industry in NYC.



I am not sure you want to include California in any discussion to prove a point after all, plastic straws are their main concern.:rolleyes:

[AndyS]

"Bottom line rod and reel will NEVER harm an ocean fishery."

Not true. How many deck shots of dead 50 pound + striped bass to I have to see ?

[Down Deep Sportfishing]

"Bottom line rod and reel will NEVER harm an ocean fishery."

Not true. How many deck shots of dead 50 pound + striped bass to I have to see ?


There is NO comparison. The amount of 50# fish you see in a season in deck shot WILL NEVER compare to one drag of a tow. I’ve been there, and sadly I’ve seen it. When the tow comes up and you’re standing next to a pile of fish 8 ft. high, it will change the way you think about recreational fishing in the blink of an eye. What goes back, shoveled over you can’t imagine. The tow does not discriminate and simply destroys crushing results, literally. Check Weatherbug and you will see a 24hr. beach camera of Martells in PP. Who’s lights do you see fishing 1,2,3 in the morning tight to the beach? I’m sure it’s not the local night party boats. Fish have a choice when they want to bite, they don’t have a choice when the trawl comes thru. With all the south wind last year, they shut commercial Fluke fishing down early last year as they filled their quota, while most couldn’t buy a bite. After that the fish bit their heads off, everyone caught and the season closed leaving them biting. With all the south wind this year, let’s see what happens in the next few days/weeks.

[hammer4reel]

This is a great thread and a negative thread.
Eric I agree with what I believe (and correct me if I am wrong) that your goal was to get recreational fishermen to start adopting more of a Catch and Release philosophy than currently in your mind exists. I agree if that was the intent as there is no harm in that to anyone.

It would have been nice if responses would have just said yes we all can be better stewards of the sea instead of the blame game.
All that means is take what you need when you need and dont if you dont need.
"Limit the kill dont Kill the limit"
Granted Charter/ Party Boats NEED to make a living so again what I just said does NOT apply to ALL


What this thread however does prove is the disparity of OPINION within all humans and especially us saltwater fishermen. We complain all the time about "faulty data" and yet here it is in this thread. We feed NOAA exactly what they need to keep up the false data because we provide it.

Some believe we put too much pressure on individual species and there are hundreds of boats everyday "on nice days" etc and others believe that the pressure is less than ever after "Sandy".


Some state the fish are everywhere and some say its in decline. I dont profess to have the answers and to be honest dont have the facts to back things up either but there is a reason party boats, charter boats, bait and tackle shops are in decline and the logical reason is less recreational fishing pressure not more.

Somewhere there are reasons and I wont use the "C change" word as that can be offensive to some but fish are migrating to NEW areas all the time.

Fish are not found as often as "prospecting" new spots isnt happening as it once did. The top producers get the fish because they go where the fish are.

Personally I believe the fisheries management by species (as Joey Da Fish stated) vs the entire ecosystem is the wrong approach. They regulate and "save" LOL one species without regard of the impact on another species and then try to adjust seasons / bag limits to compensate.

Commercials have their responsibility in this and always have. I agree with Reason 162 on the 14" fluke as it just makes sense. It does NOT make sense we dont have a SLOT fish however. Again on FLUKE.

Thanks Eric for the post but recreational fishermen need to start researching and agreeing on a few facts before we go anywhere.

Dave I could show you videos of how many boats are fishing during these bass runs, the pressure is WAY more than ever, just go back to when NJ fishing had 20 paying sponsor charter boats , count how many are here today.

Bait shops are going out of business at the same rate other retailers are due to internet sales.
Example is Gulp. bait shops are required to sell it at suggested retail.
yet go online or go to Dicks sporting goods and get deal after deal.
Lures can be bought online for less than a store can purchase them today.
makes it tough for the little guys to stay open.
and the ones that can think charging a few bucks over retail is OK, the might get the passing fisherman to pay for it ONCE but im sure the next twenty bags of gulp that person buys isn't from that store.


I remember when there was about a half dozen CC in the 30' and larger range , just going back less than 10 years ago.
now on any given weekend I see over 50 in that range.


it isn't fake news there are more guys fishing than ever, and those that think there is less are either not fishing, blind, or have their head in the sand.

.

[O'Connor]

I am not sure you want to include California in any discussion to prove a point after all, plastic straws are their main concern.:rolleyes:

We've had some of the best fishing in the US the last five years. Straws or no straws....the fishing in Southern California is absolutely insane. Besides...Murphy has NJ on it's way to being a mini California....with higher taxes :eek:

I took a vacation back East last month and fished bass on a charter boat. In the cabin the capt. had this sign posted. He get's it.....

[Solemate]

Speculation is all I hear on this thread. No real data since there is non. Go fishing. Enjoy the day and keep what you can eat fresh. If that does not make you happy then perhaps you need a new recreation.

[dales529]

Dave I could show you videos of how many boats are fishing during these bass runs, the pressure is WAY more than ever, just go back to when NJ fishing had 20 paying sponsor charter boats , count how many are here today.

Bait shops are going out of business at the same rate other retailers are due to internet sales.
Example is Gulp. bait shops are required to sell it at suggested retail.
yet go online or go to Dicks sporting goods and get deal after deal.
Lures can be bought online for less than a store can purchase them today.
makes it tough for the little guys to stay open.
and the ones that can think charging a few bucks over retail is OK, the might get the passing fisherman to pay for it ONCE but im sure the next twenty bags of gulp that person buys isn't from that store.
I remember when there was about a half dozen CC in the 30' and larger range , just going back less than 10 years ago.
now on any given weekend I see over 50 in that range.


it isn't fake news there are more guys fishing than ever, and those that think there is less are either not fishing, blind, or have their head in the sand.

.

Dan
Always appreciate your input as you are out there more than me. I agree when it comes to Bass fishing as that always draws a crowd when the bite is on. Nothing feeds a CC frenzy more than bass busting on bait.
MY experience fishing from MI or SRI to northern and or southern spots for FLUKE. TOG or other bottom fish is mainly on weekdays.
We can travel 10 to 20 miles in either direction and see maybe 2 to 20 private boats plus the usual PB and Charters. In the "OLD Days" we would pass 20 just outside either inlet.

Yes internet killed the radio star lol (age reference) but at the same time real time everyday fishing reports give a non factual result of fish stocks
I agree fishing is NOT what it used to be in the 70's 80's etc but we got skunked plenty and bluefish disappeared then too. The only reports we got back then was the Friday Star Ledger so the bad days never got reported.

I am sure the NJ Marine Gas sales tax revenue , economic input on boating , fishing, bait and tackle sales etc is available somewhere and my guess is its down from Sandy but will do some more research

Also i have seen and firmly believe that even in a hot Fluke, TOG, Bass etc bite that even if the traffic is heavy not that many are putting huge catches together.

NOAA data says if 200 boats go out 3 times a week x 5 anglers than all those boats / anglers are taking fish. I just dont think thats true and we feed their ability to keep doing that kind of data. When we state we as recreational fishermen are doing damage to a stock then we cant complain when they take that fishery away. The harder part is we cant justify either argument when we cant agree on what we see.
Seabass is OBVIOUSLY rebuilt! Mix of juveniles and keepers everywhere but yet we are still overfishing???

In the spirit of the this post I agree we can all release more fish. Outside of the once and a while fishermen I believe we are more conservation and safe release stewards than ever before.

Are you fishing the FSOS? If so see you then

[dakota560]

Has been an interesting thread. A few comments which will be my last on this subject. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so here's mine and not based on anecdotal information but data (right or wrong) provided by NMFS and being used in making regulatory decisions.

From 1990 - 1992, Spawning Stock Biomass "SSB" averaged approximately 11,500 metric tons. In 1989, it was reported at approximately 7,000 metric tons. Between 2006 - 2012, it averaged 45,000 metric tons or a 300% increase. How can anyone say climate change is the problem when SSB has exploded upward over the last 30 years. It peaked in 2002 at approximately 50,000 metric tons, a 600% increase from 1989. How does that support the mass migration of summer flounder due to increased temperature changes. Fish are absolutely moving but in my opinion not to the extent some believe or for the reasons they believe. The biomass has increased exponentially, data doesn't support the theory.

For those arguing total catch is the problem, average catch leading up to the 50,000 metric ton SSB in 2002 was 12,500 metric tons. In 2015 it was 7,500 metric tons and has been reduced even further each of the last three years. As a percentage of SSB, today's quota (recreational and commercial) is about 17%. From 1990 - 1999, annual catch averaged over 60% of average annual SSB. Annual catch as a percentage of SSB has been cut by over 70%! So no matter how many more boats are fishing and how many more center consoles there are, in the absolute and as a percentage of published SSB we are collectively harvesting 70% less of the resource annually from the 90's to current. I don't know how anyone can argue catch in the aggregate being the problem facing this fishery when considering those facts.

There was a sizemic imbalance created between egg reproduction and SSB if you review the data around 2000 - 2002 when size limits started approaching 17 inches. It TANKED. Egg reproduction is down on a relative basis compared to SSB by over 80% in the last 20 years. SSB is here, it didn't move to Maine. Eggs are not. How everyone is ignoring that trend is incomprehensible. I submit and have posted it could be the result of more than one reason but it's hard not to put at the top of that list we are destroying the female composition of SSB as a result of NMFS's insistence on managing the fishery by harvesting larger almost exclusivey female fluke for the last 20 years. Combine that with the potential irreparable damage commercial operations are causing harvesting fluke during their primary spawn in the fall while migrating east in highly concentrated schools . And how many fish do we release during the summer that end up dead when commercails hygrade their catch during that process.

Everyone, commercial as well as recreational, has the right to harvest this resource but neither one has the right to do so at the expense of the other or the resource itself.

I know I sound like a broken record but my theory isn't based on anecdotal information, it's based on what we are at minimum being told is the best available data. It couldn't be more clear what THEIR data is telling us. I've shared my opinion on what's causing the decline, if nothing else measures should be adopted to prove it out or disprove it and point us in another direction but continuing down the same path year in year out has pushed this fishery to the brink and the many businesses dependent on it.

[hammer4reel]

Has been an interesting thread. A few comments which will be my last on this subject. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so here's mine and not based on anecdotal information but data (right or wrong) provided by NMFS and being used in making regulatory decisions.

From 1990 - 1992, Spawning Stock Biomass "SSB" averaged approximately 11,500 metric tons. In 1989, it was reported at approximately 7,000 metric tons. Between 2006 - 2012, it averaged 45,000 metric tons or a 300% increase. How can anyone say climate change is the problem when SSB has exploded upward over the last 30 years. It peaked in 2002 at approximately 50,000 metric tons, a 600% increase from 1989. How does that support the mass migration of summer flounder due to increased temperature changes. Fish are absolutely moving but in my opinion not to the extent some believe or for the reasons they believe. The biomass has increased exponentially, data doesn't support the theory.

For those arguing total catch is the problem, average catch leading up to the 50,000 metric ton SSB in 2002 was 12,500 metric tons. In 2015 it was 7,500 metric tons and has been reduced even further each of the last three years. As a percentage of SSB, today's quota (recreational and commercial) is about 17%. From 1990 - 1999, annual catch averaged over 60% of average annual SSB. Annual catch as a percentage of SSB has been cut by over 70%! So no matter how many more boats are fishing and how many more center consoles there are, in the absolute and as a percentage of published SSB we are collectively harvesting 70% less of the resource annually from the 90's to current. I don't know how anyone can argue catch in the aggregate being the problem facing this fishery when considering those facts.

There was a sizemic imbalance created between egg reproduction and SSB if you review the data around 2000 - 2002 when size limits started approaching 17 inches. It TANKED. Egg reproduction is down on a relative basis compared to SSB by over 80% in the last 20 years. SSB is here, it didn't move to Maine. Eggs are not. How everyone is ignoring that trend is incomprehensible. I submit and have posted it could be the result of more than one reason but it's hard not to put at the top of that list we are destroying the female composition of SSB as a result of NMFS's insistence on managing the fishery by harvesting larger almost exclusivey female fluke for the last 20 years. Combine that with the potential irreparable damage commercial operations are causing harvesting fluke during their primary spawn in the fall while migrating east in highly concentrated schools . And how many fish do we release during the summer that end up dead when commercails hygrade their catch during that process.

Everyone, commercial as well as recreational, has the right to harvest this resource but neither one has the right to do so at the expense of the other or the resource itself.

I know I sound like a broken record but my theory isn't based on anecdotal information, it's based on what we are at minimum being told is the best available data. It couldn't be more clear what THEIR data is telling us. I've shared my opinion on what's causing the decline, if nothing else measures should be adopted to prove it out or disprove it and point us in another direction but continuing down the same path year in year out has pushed this fishery to the brink and the many businesses dependent on it.

Tom, your argument is based on what we argued with Kirby at the meeting in the first place, that their own info showed why there would definetly be a decline is their numbers were accurate.

But I am more inclined to believe those numbers we were shown are bullshit.

More like the sky is falling to back their reasoning for lowering bag limits

Landing by the commercial fleet are fairly accurate.
IF there wasn't a good body of fish their few month season quota wouldn't be reached in less than 2 weeks.
These guys are traveling way less than they have in 30 plus years to catch those quotas. If NMFS numbers were accurate they would have to fish the entire season to reach their quota.

The amount of boats fishing def makes a difference on whats available as well as whats actually kept .

The only thing NMFS has done is reach the magic number where many guys aren't catching keeper sized fish when it comes to fluke.

[anchorjoe]

Hi Eric, hold finger on picture and forward window will open

[NoLimit]

I remember seeing pictures of mountains of rockfish that were trawled in Chesepeake Bay back in the 70's and 80's. People that claim recreational fishing impacts stocks are delusional.

[AndyS]

I never thought recreational fishing could ever impact a fishery until about 10 years ago if my memory serves me correctly. A MASSIVE school of striped bass took up residence just off Island Beach State Park in the fall. For better than 2 months this massive school was pounded day in and day out by what seemed to be every party boat, charter boat and private boat in the state of New Jersey.
It got to the point parking lots were full at IBSP due to the amount of surf fishermen. Videos were made of charter boats screaming out of Manasquan inlet doing 40 mph at first light to be the first boat on the fish. This went on for months !!! Every single day was a city of boats parked on top of these striped bass holding tight to the beach. I remember it because that was the LAST time I killed a striped bass and vowed on that day on the Gambler that I would never kill another another striped bass as long as I shall live. It was an all out massacre by recreational fishermen. Remember the posts, the words "MASSACRE" were used often during that two month period. The fishing finally ended after every last fish was caught.

[bulletbob]

I never thought recreational fishing could ever impact a fishery until about 10 years ago if my memory serves me correctly. A MASSIVE school of striped bass took up residence just off Island Beach State Park in the fall. For better than 2 months this massive school was pounded day in and day out by what seemed to be every party boat, charter boat and private boat in the state of New Jersey.
It got to the point parking lots were full at IBSP due to the amount of surf fishermen. Videos were made of charter boats screaming out of Manasquan inlet doing 40 mph at first light to be the first boat on the fish. This went on for months !!! Every single day was a city of boats parked on top of these striped bass holding tight to the beach. I remember it because that was the LAST time I killed a striped bass and vowed on the day on the Gambler that I would never kill another another striped bass as long as I shall live. It was an all out massacre by recreational fishermen. Remember the posts, the words "MASSACRE" were used often during that two month period. The fishing finally ended after every last fish was caught.

I witnessed an identical scenario in the summer of 1982.. there was a massive population of the biggest kind of tiderunner Weakfish, in the area we used to call "between the channels" right off the tip of sandy hook.. For 2 solid months those fish were absolutely hammered day and night.. It was stupid easy to catch them.. we used a tiny half ounce jig head with a straight piece of hard surge tube maybe 3-4 inches. Tiger Tail I think it was called.Throw it out, put the rod in the holder while drifting, , NO action needed.. Instant hit, reel up your 8-12 weakfish.. Party boats, charters and private boats by the hundreds hit that mass of fish day and night[mostly night].. Guys were catching 100 a night and keeping all of them. Some were selling them at local fish markets for mere pennies a pound, just so they could get a liitle gas money for the next night.. Within maybe 6-7 weeks those fish were pretty much gone, with just a few left .. Some might say they moved out, but not me.. At that time, I still lived in union beach, and knew the fishing scene in raritan bay very well.. Those fish were cleaned out by greedy recreational anglers..
They knew where they were, and simply kept taking them until there were none left...

Like many populations of fish we target, they were in a specific area, set up along the channel edges, and the high ground between..

thats the problem.. the fish are NOT everywhere, they are in specific zones that offer food/shelter/temperature/structure etc, and todays exceptionally skilled and well equipped anglers with bigger, better, faster, boats, and a lot of free time, are much better "harvesters" than the casual fishermen of 35-40 years ago... As I stated before, we can't wipe out ocean wide or state wide populations, and we can't tear the bottom to shreds like the commercials can, but we can certainly take far too many fish from local populations... Seen it with my own eyes.... bob