Interesting TV show

[Grateful Dad]

For those of you with access to Netflix, there is a series up now called "Rotten". It looks at the crooked politics of the food industry (it doesn't cover the quality of our food, just the politics). Anyway, there is an episode entitled "Cod is Dead" that speaks to commercial fishing quotas, corruption, and ruining a fishery. A little entertainment while we wait for the spring season to start!

[Jigman13]

For those of you with access to Netflix, there is a series up now called "Rotten". It looks at the crooked politics of the food industry (it doesn't cover the quality of our food, just the politics). Anyway, there is an episode entitled "Cod is Dead" that speaks to commercial fishing quotas, corruption, and ruining a fishery. A little entertainment while we wait for the spring season to start!

X2! It was a great episode. The entire series really makes you think. Garlic honey, chickens--the corruption is insane!

[hammer4reel]

X2! It was a great episode. The entire series really makes you think. Garlic honey, chickens--the corruption is insane!

for sure, and its crazy how much influence in our foods ( and its problems) is related to China

[bulletbob]

yes, pretty interesting... I dunno, it was hard for me to feel too sorry for the commercial guys when I saw the footage of the nets scouring all life from the bottom indiscriminately.

The commercial guys have been the main reason we have no more winter Whiting/Ling Cod/Mackerel fisheries in the NY Bight, why we have restrictive regs on Fluke and Sea Bass, and why Tautog are now tightly regulated, and probably headed for even more restriction in the very near future..
Winter flounder, Weakfish, I am not certain they totally killed them off, but most likely didn't help either.

I was an auto technician and a good one, making a good middle class living..
It got to the point I could no longer do it at around the age of 50, and I had to get into another line of work, late in life.. I adjusted..
If the commercial guys are going broke, can't make payments or meet payroll, why not just move into another line of work??

If its that terrible, move on.

Sorry, I don't buy the "the sea is in my blood" crap, or " my dad passed this life on to me".

Cars were my life, and motor oil was in my blood, but I got out and went somewhere else when that was no longer an option.
So while these guys might live and breathe the open sea and the salt air, they won't pay the bills if there are no fish for them, or at least no fish they can keep..
Move on and get into something else like millions of other do every year.

I see these guys fishing skates and doggies.. if thats REALLY all these guys can catch these days in abundance, its time to pack it in.. Dogfish are eaten extensively in Europe I guess .. they can have them.... bob

[NoLimit]

yes, pretty interesting... I dunno, it was hard for me to feel too sorry for the commercial guys when i saw the footage of the nets scouring all life from the bottom indiscriminately.

The commercial guys have been the main reason we have no more winter whiting/ling cod/mackerel fisheries in the ny bight, why we have restrictive regs on fluke and sea bass, and why tautog are now tightly regulated, and probably headed for even more restriction in the very near future..
Winter flounder, weakfish, i am not certain they totally killed them off, but most likely didn't help either.

I was an auto technician and a good one, making a good middle class living..
It got to the point i could no longer do it at around the age of 50, and i had to get into another line of work, late in life.. I adjusted..
If the commercial guys are going broke, can't make payments or meet payroll, why not just move into another line of work??

If its that terrible, move on.

Sorry, i don't buy the "the sea is in my blood" crap, or " my dad passed this life on to me".

Cars were my life, and motor oil was in my blood, but i got out and went somewhere else when that was no longer an option.
So while these guys might live and breathe the open sea and the salt air, they won't pay the bills if there are no fish for them, or at least no fish they can keep..
Move on and get into something else like millions of other do every year.

I see these guys fishing skates and doggies.. If thats really all these guys can catch these days in abundance, its time to pack it in.. Dogfish are eaten extensively in europe i guess .. They can have them.... Bob

worth repeating

[bulletbob]

worth repeating

I am not a nasty cold hearted person.. I simply grow weary of seeing commercial guys saying they can't make a living any more.. I understand and have empathy, no one likes to have to move on to another job, but it happens every single day.. If you are going broke, and need to eat, you find another job, and cut your losses. Happens to a lot of people, and no one romanticizes it on TV.

Several years ago I was fishing in Raritan Bay and saw a low flying plane buzzing around.. Not 20 minutes later a bunch of net boats formed a big circle, all sterns pointing inward if I am recalling correctly, and proceeded to clean out unimaginable numbers of bunker.. Since then I just don't have the sympathy for commercial operations.

I guess its greed on my part.. I just want some of the fish that we used to have in great abundance back living in the areas they used to live... Big net boats took most of them- to the point they may never be back in decent numbers, so yeah, not much sympathy... bob

[Capt. Lou]

Nothing new here most closures and present day draconian saltwater fisheries limits are a direct result of over fishing in some form by primarily commercial
Fishing period .
What we are faced with today is an extremely limited sport fishery that has fostered a sobering pirate commercial fishery that when uncovered at various times blows your mind .
They contuine to dismantle our fisheries and take not only theirs but our share of the fishery as well .
In my opinion we will never keep the commercial fisheries in tow due to our present day sport fisheries position . We are scapegoats for a commercial Fishery that was left unabated after inactment of 200 mile limit which permitted the rape of our ground fishery by commercials for years. We sport anglers are. paying the price , no mackerel , cod , whiting , weakfish , flounder , Fluke etc
We sure as hell didn’t do it but they NOAA , contuinally cut our limits and put the blame for this carnage on our shoulders , the commercial money and lobbying keeps us chasing crumbs its really that simple !
You can put any spin on this you want but it won’t change anything , especially Thea rediculous formulas created by PHD’s that we over fish a resource on a regular basis , and we sport anglers that are plagued by our own indifference get what we deserve the crumbs and the sad part is we feel good about it !

[bulletbob]

Nothing new here most closures and present day draconian saltwater fisheries limits are a direct result of over fishing in some form by primarily commercial
Fishing period .
What we are faced with today is an extremely limited sport fishery that has fostered a sobering pirate commercial fishery that when uncovered at various times blows your mind .
They contuine to dismantle our fisheries and take not only theirs but our share of the fishery as well .
In my opinion we will never keep the commercial fisheries in tow due to our present day sport fisheries position . We are scapegoats for a commercial Fishery that was left unabated after inactment of 200 mile limit which permitted the rape of our ground fishery by commercials for years. We sport anglers are. paying the price , no mackerel , cod , whiting , weakfish , flounder , Fluke etc
We sure as hell didn’t do it but they NOAA , contuinally cut our limits and put the blame for this carnage on our shoulders , the commercial money and lobbying keeps us chasing crumbs its really that simple !
You can put any spin on this you want but it won’t change anything , especially Thea rediculous formulas created by PHD’s that we over fish a resource on a regular basis , and we sport anglers that are plagued by our own indifference get what we deserve the crumbs and the sad part is we feel good about it !

well stated.. Only thing I don't understand is this.. For years we had foreign fleets close in sucking millions of tons of fish into factory ships, yet we still had good recreational fishing year round... It was only after the 200 mile limit became law when our inshore fishery started to decline.. It seems almost like we were better off with the foreign fleets than with our own local commercial boats.. Kind of silly I guess, but man we used to have great fishing in the 60's and 70's....bob

[Blind Squirrel]

well stated.. Only thing I don't understand is this.. For years we had foreign fleets close in sucking millions of tons of fish into factory ships, yet we still had good recreational fishing year round... It was only after the 200 mile limit became law when our inshore fishery started to decline.. It seems almost like we were better off with the foreign fleets than with our own local commercial boats.. Kind of silly I guess, but man we used to have great fishing in the 60's and 70's....bob
Are you suggesting that we eliminate the 200-mile limit? Perhaps do away with at least two existing regulations for every new one passed? :eek:

[bulletbob]

Are you suggesting that we eliminate the 200-mile limit? Perhaps do away with at least two existing regulations for every new one passed? :eek:

No, of course not ...that statement is ludicrous.

Just an old timers observation is all... Was it the foreign flags that destroyed the huge groundfish stocks?? The 200 mile limit became law in 1976 I believe,, and we still enjoyed good year round fishing for close to 20 years afterwards.
So it must be our local commercial guys did most of the damage we are seeing today..
Blackfish in particular were still very abundant until they became a commercial species some time in the 90's.. They need gamefish only status IMHO... bob

[Blind Squirrel]

No, of course not ...that statement is ludicrous.

Just an old timers observation is all... Was it the foreign flags that destroyed the huge groundfish stocks?? The 200 mile limit became law in 1976 I believe,, and we still enjoyed good year round fishing for close to 20 years afterwards.
So it must be our local commercial guys did most of the damage we are seeing today..
Blackfish in particular were still very abundant until they became a commercial species some time in the 90's.. They need gamefish only status IMHO... bob
Doing away with at least two existing regulations for every new one passed (https://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecrews/2016/11/22/donald-trump-promises-to-eliminate-two-regulations-for-every-one-enacted/#5e374c644586) is beyond merely ludicrous, but consider the source (http://www.topplebush.com/photos1060.shtml).
I've personally never seen Russian, Japanese, or other foreign fleets operating any closer to the NJ coast than the Hudson Canyon area, and from what little I know about tog fishing, it doesn't seem likely that targeting pelagics ~80 miles out would affect an inshore bottom species population. Gamefish-only status worked very well for striped bass fisheries, but required the dreaded "r-word." Are you sure you wanna go there for tog too, Bob? :cool:

[bulletbob]

Doing away with at least two existing regulations for every new one passed (https://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecrews/2016/11/22/donald-trump-promises-to-eliminate-two-regulations-for-every-one-enacted/#5e374c644586) is beyond merely ludicrous, but consider the source (http://www.topplebush.com/photos1060.shtml).
I've personally never seen Russian, Japanese, or other foreign fleets operating any closer to the NJ coast than the Hudson Canyon area, and from what little I know about tog fishing, it doesn't seem likely that targeting pelagics ~80 miles out would affect an inshore bottom species population. Gamefish-only status worked very well for striped bass fisheries, but required the dreaded "r-word." Are you sure you wanna go there for tog too, Bob? :cool:

I think you misunderstand.. When I mentioned tog, I was merely thinking about a few decades back when every pebble that was submerged at low tide held them in good numbers, and catching 50 of mixed sizes was an every day occurrence.
Then over time into the 90's the "live fish" market exploded, and pin hookers and commercial guys setting fish pot strings, and tog were suddenly a hot commodity.. Problem is they aren't a good "candidate" for heavy commercial pressure, due to the fact they don't migrate, and live in very specific areas that everyone and his brother knows about.. If the pressure on them isn't mitigated, they will be another species like weakfish where they are very scarce, and with a 1 fish limit and short season.. Right on these pages a few years ago I recall a party boat patron telling the story of how he sold 4 big tog for $100, paying for his trip, gas,+... Most guys here will not like it, and might scoff, but believe me, if we can wipe out Weaks, Flounder Whiting, Mackerel, etc, Tog will be a piece of cake... The fish stocks can't take the relentless pressure they are under by commercial concerns.. I don't know what the answer is, but I have pretty much stopped blackfishing.. Just getting too hard to catch a few..
I have really slowed down on my NJ trips sadly.. Every year it gets tougher to take a few fish home.. Too many fish caught and eaten for too many years, its a numbers game, and the commercially desirable species are losing for the most part... bob

[Pennsy Guy]

Lest we all forget, although NOAA was formed in 1970, it included the U.S. Coast & Geodetic survey formed in 1807, the Weather Bureau in 1870 & the BUREAU OF COMMERCIAL FISHERIES in 1871. One has to realize NOAA still holds commercial interests primary and to hell with the recreational fishers and will until a massive/complete replacement of administrative personnel takes place, starting with the head administration and new policy dictates from the POTUS...That's been stated for years now and it didn't happen, even after LoBiondo was replaced, supposedly with an assurance of change with her replacement. Sympathies still lie with the Commercials. Our noose will be tightened each year until priorities change, their flawed science is replaced with the results that have been shown theirs is wrong; not to mention the reduced limits/seasons even with their stated results that some stocks have been rebuilt by more than 100%! Chucky

[Pennsy Guy]

Oh yea, the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries was later changed to NMFS--National Marine Fisheries Service with the pretext of serving both the commercial & recreational fishers....and it's quite evident it's really working---especially for the rec's...Chucky

[Blackfish Doug]

I agree with most of what has been said here & I do feel the commercials do get a good chunk of the allotted amount of the fish. But right now our commercial fleet is 1/3 of what it once was talk to anybody who's in the business. Take away the GPS & fish finder & tell me how good would everybody be. So if the fleet is smaller then it ever was so why has the fishing not improved? Lets start with technology it's gotten to the point where nobody's spots are secrets any more & you can pin point the fish to an exact spot. As for Blackfish & I do an awful lot of it I think it's fine it's the size limit here in NJ if the size limits were still 14" I would have had plenty of days with limits perception. How many keeper Fluke would everyone have if it was still 14"? perception again. Back in the 70's there was no limits or size limits or seasons on Blackfish,Weakfish, Sea Bass, Porgies take what you want. I saw many of fisherman walk off boats then with buckets full of fish that in today's standards most of them you would not be able to keep. Nobody wants to talk about that but I see it & anybody else who's been fishing as long as I had sees it as well. I feel if those size limits & seasons were still the same today this post would not even be here. I do feel the Party boats & charter boats should be included in the commercial quota's & recreational should be separate.